Law vs. Academia (family friendliness) - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 05-16-2009, 04:28 AM

Is 70 to 80 hours a week family-friendly?

Cali Coug · 05-16-2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

is it a profession that you go into because it is better for families.

What does "in general" matter (and how could you even pretend to know the answer to that)?

It isn't like an attorney joining the practice has zero control over the hours he will work, the field he will practice in, etc. There is simply a trade-off between pay and lifestyle. Is that really not true of most professions? If anything, the law may provide a more diverse availability of options for balancing lifestyle and pay. You can go to a 100% lifestyle control route and work largely pro bono or as a public defender, etc., or you can go almost 100% pay (NYC firm, sweatshop, poor quality of life, starting pay of $160,000 with bonuses of up to $75,000 in your first year, etc., then leading to partnership with pay of multiple millions after 10-12 yrs of work). You can also do just about anything in between.

You are painting the picture of a career in the law as being exclusively on the side of 100% pay, 0% quality of life, which just isn't the case. Why do you think it is?

All-American · 05-16-2009, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is 70 to 80 hours a week family-friendly?

You're right; I should go be a doctor.

MikeWaters · 05-16-2009, 05:02 AM

Sure you could. But 200k debts have a way of making your mind up for you. I haven't met a LDS lawyer who didn't go to work for a large firm. Is that because these large firms are family-friendly? I assume so because I can't imagine good LDS folks choosing money over time w/ family.

All-American · 05-16-2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Sure you could. But 200k debts have a way of making your mind up for you. I haven't met a LDS lawyer who didn't go to work for a large firm. Is that because these large firms are family-friendly? I assume so because I can't imagine good LDS folks choosing money over time w/ family.

My brother clerked for a Utah firm the summer after his first year. He was home by 6:00 every day, except for the days the firm threw family activities.

And there's the LRAP, too. If I want to do a lower-paying government, non-profit, or public service job, they pay the entirety of the loan payment each month.

MikeWaters · 05-16-2009, 11:23 AM

I know a LDS guy who is just out of law school and does public defender work. He sounds pretty happy. But he also went to a crap law school, barely graduated, and probably didn't have the option to work at a big firm.

I don't care how late a clerk, or intern stays. How late were the associates there? The partners? You work like hell to be a partner, and then work harder when you are a partner.

Unhappiness at these firms is typical, seems like the LDS lawyers are always quitting and moving on to different firms, smaller firms, smaller markets.....

All-American · 05-16-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I know a LDS guy who is just out of law school and does public defender work. He sounds pretty happy. But he also went to a crap law school, barely graduated, and probably didn't have the option to work at a big firm.

I don't care how late a clerk, or intern stays. How late were the associates there? The partners? You work like hell to be a partner, and then work harder when you are a partner.

Unhappiness at these firms is typical, seems like the LDS lawyers are always quitting and moving on to different firms, smaller firms, smaller markets.....

He went home because the associates and partners had left.

I will keep all of this in mind when it comes to making career choices, though. Promise. I'll keep that little voice in the back of my head, warning that there is great potential for misery in law, and to take care to avoid it.

MikeWaters · 05-16-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

He went home because the associates and partners had left.

I will keep all of this in mind when it comes to making career choices, though. Promise. I'll keep that little voice in the back of my head, warning that there is great potential for misery in law, and to take care to avoid it.

Now I will let you in on a great secret--the fact is many couples can't stand each other, that staying at work is preferable to coming home to a dirty house, mad wife, and crying kids. You work long hours, and are respected by all, even your church associates, your wife prefers you gone, you prefer to be gone.

There is a reason they are not at home.

RedHeadGal · 05-16-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Sure you could. But 200k debts have a way of making your mind up for you. I haven't met a LDS lawyer who didn't go to work for a large firm. Is that because these large firms are family-friendly? I assume so because I can't imagine good LDS folks choosing money over time w/ family.

There have been many lawyers on this board, and they have never not worked for big firms? I want to disagree with you here, but frankly I"m having a little trouble thinking of LDS, male lawyers who don't work for big firms. On the other hand, it's easy for me to think of female lawyers who do not. You know me, you know I am a lawyer, and you know I do not work for a big firm. In fact, I did work at a big firm before I went to law school, and the main thing that taught me was that I didn't want to work at a big firm.

Maybe this speaks to the gender disparity in the culture: they must see value (to be read as self-value) to pursuing big money to providing for their families. It makes me recall a conversation with a young LDS law student. He had a wife and child at home. I didn't know much about his family, so I asked, "does your wife work outside the home?" He responded, "no, that wouldn't make much sense for her to work because I"m going to be working such long hours."

Although I think I understood his point, it made me a little sad that his ideal was so far from mine: I'd much rather see parents attempt to have a work-family balance instead to differentiating the roles so entirely.

MikeWaters · 05-16-2009, 09:03 PM

Mormons are practical people, not idealistic, who can appreciate a stack of cash.

Moreover, in Mormon culture, being a workaholic is not something that is looked down upon.

Why aren't the LDS lawyers at non-profits trying to change the world? What needs to be changed?

05-16-2009, 04:28 AM	#11
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Is 70 to 80 hours a week family-friendly?

05-16-2009, 05:02 AM	#14
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Sure you could. But 200k debts have a way of making your mind up for you. I haven't met a LDS lawyer who didn't go to work for a large firm. Is that because these large firms are family-friendly? I assume so because I can't imagine good LDS folks choosing money over time w/ family.

05-16-2009, 11:23 AM	#16
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I know a LDS guy who is just out of law school and does public defender work. He sounds pretty happy. But he also went to a crap law school, barely graduated, and probably didn't have the option to work at a big firm. I don't care how late a clerk, or intern stays. How late were the associates there? The partners? You work like hell to be a partner, and then work harder when you are a partner. Unhappiness at these firms is typical, seems like the LDS lawyers are always quitting and moving on to different firms, smaller firms, smaller markets.....

05-16-2009, 09:03 PM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Mormons are practical people, not idealistic, who can appreciate a stack of cash. Moreover, in Mormon culture, being a workaholic is not something that is looked down upon. Why aren't the LDS lawyers at non-profits trying to change the world? What needs to be changed?