"Feelings or Orientation" - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

UtahDan · 04-17-2007, 05:18 PM

This is the most fascinating part of the honor code revisions to me. Being a legal type I am assuming that the words that were chosen here (beause the HC is the law at BYU) were selected very, very carefully and with a great deal of thought.

So when a church institution says that it will not react to feelings, I understand that to mean that some people may "feel" homosexual or have homosexual desires. That is category one.

But what does it mean by "orientation"? If I apply statutory construction rules (maybe I shouldn't) then I would start with the assumption that every word used should be given its normal meaning and that the second word in the list is not intended to simply repeat the same concept, but is intended to have a distinct meaning. If I give orientation its normal meaning in this context, it is hard to escape the conclusion that at chruch organization (BYU) may have just acknowledged that homosexuality has a non-elective element to it, at least in some cases.

How do others read this?

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5684555

Cali Coug · 04-17-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

This is the most fascinating part of the honor code revisions to me. Being a legal type I am assuming that the words that were chosen here (beause the HC is the law at BYU) were selected very, very carefully and with a great deal of thought.

So when a church institution says that it will not react to feelings, I understand that to mean that some people may "feel" homosexual or have homosexual desires. That is category one.

But what does it mean by "orientation"? If I apply statutory construction rules (maybe I shouldn't) then I would start with the assumption that every word used should be given its normal meaning and that the second word in the list is not intended to simply repeat the same concept, but is intended to have a distinct meaning. If I give orientation its normal meaning in this context, it is hard to escape the conclusion that at chruch organization (BYU) may have just acknowledged that homosexuality has a non-elective element to it, at least in some cases.

How do others read this?

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5684555

Precisely the same way.

Cali Coug · 04-17-2007, 05:38 PM

Here is an article I came across a few years ago in Dialogue magazine. It is written by a person who was not gay, but then was sexually abused by another male and subsequently became homosexual. The article discusses the author's challenges as an LDS male

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/doc...OW=27394&REC=9

It is well worth the read (even though the page turning is a bit odd- you have to click on the page number on the left side of the webpage to progress).

SteelBlue · 04-17-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

If I give orientation its normal meaning in this context, it is hard to escape the conclusion that at chruch organization (BYU) may have just acknowledged that homosexuality has a non-elective element to it, at least in some cases.

How do others read this?

That was my first thought.

MikeWaters · 04-17-2007, 07:27 PM

Women can't wear jeans until 1980.

Being gay might not be a conscious choice, 2007.

The world is not flat, 2025.

Archaea · 04-17-2007, 07:34 PM

Abortion is a grand form of birth control, 2079?

il Padrino Ute · 04-18-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Abortion is a grand form of birth control, 2079?

God cares about BYU football, never.

FMCoug · 04-18-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

God cares about BYU football, never.

Correction. 1972.

il Padrino Ute · 04-18-2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Correction. 1972.

So, he stopped caring for a while then again last year?

FMCoug · 04-18-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

So, he stopped caring for a while then again last year?

Huh? In 1972 God decided BYU football mattered so he sent us LaVell. I don't get the last year comment.

04-17-2007, 05:18 PM	#1
UtahDan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Bluth Home Posts: 3,877	"Feelings or Orientation" This is the most fascinating part of the honor code revisions to me. Being a legal type I am assuming that the words that were chosen here (beause the HC is the law at BYU) were selected very, very carefully and with a great deal of thought. So when a church institution says that it will not react to feelings, I understand that to mean that some people may "feel" homosexual or have homosexual desires. That is category one. But what does it mean by "orientation"? If I apply statutory construction rules (maybe I shouldn't) then I would start with the assumption that every word used should be given its normal meaning and that the second word in the list is not intended to simply repeat the same concept, but is intended to have a distinct meaning. If I give orientation its normal meaning in this context, it is hard to escape the conclusion that at chruch organization (BYU) may have just acknowledged that homosexuality has a non-elective element to it, at least in some cases. How do others read this? http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5684555 __________________ The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo

04-17-2007, 07:34 PM	#6
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Abortion is a grand form of birth control, 2079? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

04-17-2007, 05:38 PM	#3
Cali Coug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,996	Here is an article I came across a few years ago in Dialogue magazine. It is written by a person who was not gay, but then was sexually abused by another male and subsequently became homosexual. The article discusses the author's challenges as an LDS male http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/doc...OW=27394&REC=9 It is well worth the read (even though the page turning is a bit odd- you have to click on the page number on the left side of the webpage to progress).

04-17-2007, 07:27 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Women can't wear jeans until 1980. Being gay might not be a conscious choice, 2007. The world is not flat, 2025.