Prop 8 support cost him his job

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

What planet are you from? This is most emphatically not the LDS Church's message. It does not want you thinking for yourself. What they want you to do is blindly follow, and they're explicit about that. Good grief.

This is my message, actually.

They didn't ask him to leave like the U of U didn't ask Ray Giacoletti to leave.

I didn't say it's necessarily the LDS Church's message. It's my personal learning point from reading about this guy's terrible experience.

[TripletDaddy]

Has anyone read Marriott's press release re: Prop 8. Not exactly a hearty endorsement there.

I guess for the Marriott's, who also sell porn and alcohol, it really IS all about the benjamins.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

I didn't say it's necessarily the LDS Church's message. It's my personal learning point from reading about this guy's terrible experience.

Yes. Never blindly follow. Always think for yourself. Good point.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

The theater says they didn't ask him to leave. And if they did ask him to leave, it appears they would have only been responding to the threat of a boycott from the artistic community like the Hairspray guy. So yes, it would have been a financial decision by the theater.

Anyway, the main message in this story for me is:

Think for yourself. The Church gave "general advice" to it's members to support Prop 8. But they don't know you individually or what line of work you are in (Who knew there were straight, LDS theater artistic directors out there?) or what the potential ramifications may be for your family and career. You have a responsibility to think things through for yourself instead of blindly following.

I'm pretty sure if you asked one of the GAs, "Do I still have to donate money to Prop 8 if it will likely mean the loss of my livelihood and inability to support my family?" he would answer, "No way. Nevermind -- it doesn't apply to you. You have to do what is best for you and your family."

1. I assume that it was before this story that you considered the idea that it is ok to think for yourself.
2. The church asks that we consecrate all we have to them.
3. It follows that giving up one's job for what is moral and right is an acceptable cost for the work of the Lord.
4. I don't assume a GA would say "no." I would assume he would say "I can't make that decision for you. Pray about it and act as you are inspired to do."

This is so inspiring. Guy donates. Claims he had no idea people would be offended. Willing participant in big media frenzy. Portrayed as a victim in a lot of media (I've already been emailed the pro-LDS spin). Donates money to gay cause. BYU Dean of Arts comments.

Yeah, I am completely inspired. These days if someone were to go and rescue the 1856 Handcart company, they would blog, tweeter, and flickr the entire way, google adsense as sponsor.

[Hazzard]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Mormonism is paying a steep price for Propositon 8. I predict passage of the measure will have been a curse, in the end. I said there would be hell to pay with the intelligentsia.

Please define "curse." If it means the "intelligentsia," along with, say, "anti-Mormon Ute lawyers who hover somewhere between way below the intelligentsia and way below most other life forms," continue to marginalize our church by their ever-so-high standards of secularism, I would say most of us would use a different term for that: "blessing."

If, however, it means less people join the church and members leave the church in droves, then feel free to start throwing around the word "curse." But if my sources are accurate, every time the LDS church involves itself in this kind of brouhaha, convert baptisms spike. In case you didn't notice, most LDS converts aren't exactly the type who are out there leading the "No on 8" rallies.

Tex ... Indy ... can I get an AMEN??!!

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

1. I assume that it was before this story that you considered the idea that it is ok to think for yourself.
2. The church asks that we consecrate all we have to them.
3. It follows that giving up one's job for what is moral and right is an acceptable cost for the work of the Lord.
4. I don't assume a GA would say "no." I would assume he would say "I can't make that decision for you. Pray about it and act as you are inspired to do."

This is so inspiring. Guy donates. Claims he had no idea people would be offended. Willing participant in big media frenzy. Portrayed as a victim in a lot of media (I've already been emailed the pro-LDS spin). Donates money to gay cause. BYU Dean of Arts comments.

Yeah, I am completely inspired. These days if someone were to go and rescue the 1856 Handcart company, they would blog, tweeter, and flickr the entire way, google adsense as sponsor.

Cardiac, don't listen to him. Your new personal inspiration is a good one, I think. You should start thinking for yourelf.

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Yes. Never blindly follow. Always think for yourself. Good point.

I don't remember who said it offhand, but there was a general conference talk a few years back when one of the apostles said something like, (OK, I know it's an obvious point for enlightened ones like SU):

We frequently receive letters asking, "What about this advice you gave in conference pertaining to __________? I don't think it applies to me for the following reasons....."

The speaker went on to state the obvious: That general advice from the Church to its membership can't possibly apply to every member in every situation. A lot of Church members seem to forget that fairly obvious point.

If somebody figures out what talk I'm referring to from my very vague description (may have been Oaks?), that would be cool.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Cardiac, don't listen to him. Your new personal inspiration is a good one, I think. You should start thinking for yourelf.

signed,
Satan

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Hazzard

Please define "curse." If it means the "intelligentsia," along with, say, "anti-Mormon Ute lawyers who hover somewhere between way below the intelligentsia and way below most other life forms," continue to marginalize our church by their ever-so-high standards of secularism, I would say most of us would use a different term for that: "blessing."

If, however, it means less people join the church and members leave the church in droves, then feel free to start throwing around the word "curse." But if my sources are accurate, every time the LDS church involves itself in this kind of brouhaha, convert baptisms spike. In case you didn't notice, most LDS converts aren't exactly the type who are out there leading the "No on 8" rallies.

Tex ... Indy ... can I get an AMEN??!!

Cite? Link? What are you talking about baptisms spike anytime something like this happens? Did baptisms spike when the LDS Church tried to stick to its guns and deny priesthood to blacks on a creationism rationale? Is that what you're saying? Do peope respect LDS for that?

I think Mormonism's/BYU's reputation has fallen to an all-time low since 1978 in the past couple of weeks among the arts and academic and credentialed communities. You probably think it's harder for those people to get into your CK than a camel through the eye of a needle.

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

1. I assume that it was before this story that you considered the idea that it is ok to think for yourself.
2. The church asks that we consecrate all we have to them.
3. It follows that giving up one's job for what is moral and right is an acceptable cost for the work of the Lord.
4. I don't assume a GA would say "no." I would assume he would say "I can't make that decision for you. Pray about it and act as you are inspired to do."

This is so inspiring. Guy donates. Claims he had no idea people would be offended. Willing participant in big media frenzy. Portrayed as a victim in a lot of media (I've already been emailed the pro-LDS spin). Donates money to gay cause. BYU Dean of Arts comments.

Yeah, I am completely inspired. These days if someone were to go and rescue the 1856 Handcart company, they would blog, tweeter, and flickr the entire way, google adsense as sponsor.

1. Yeah, it's just a good reminder of this obvious principle for the next time I'm feeling particularly mullah-y, self-righteous, or obedient.
2, 3. "All we have" is a figurative term. Nobody gives all their income away to the Church (as fast offering, etc.) even though you could interpret the covenant that way.
4. Fine. The GA would still tell you to think and pray about it for yourself. Thinking and praying about things yourself is good advice, particularly when the Church is wrong.