Fairy tales too scary, and/or not PC enough

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by creekster

Two things:

First, I agree with you completely. Hannah Montana is of the devil.

Second, I apologize for the crude imagery I used in my post. For some reason seeing you quote it makes me feel guilty. Sorry.

So do you let Hannah Montana in? Or just counterbalance it by your example? Do you watch it enough to know the content? I've never actually seen the show, although I know it's everywhere. What are the objections you have? How do you counterbalance them?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

So do you let Hannah Montana in? Or just counterbalance it by your example? Do you watch it enough to know the content? I've never actually seen the show, although I know it's everywhere. What are the objections you have? How do you counterbalance them?

While I have great personal distatse for the disney shows, I tend not to ban things from my house unless they are clearly over the line. If ind the problems with the Disney products much like those you sem to feel about Snow white. They are an insidious influence that undermiones some of the values I hold dear. To be more precise, I think they tend to encourage a sense of entitlement, discourage hard work, show disregard for the timportance of family (other than in a tidy wrap it up at the end of an episode way) make parents look stupid, and the music is really bad.

AS others pointed out, however, kids get this in genreal from a lot of sources We try (and have tried) to teach good prinicples, to expose the kids to better quality materials and to emphasize the good and quality wherever possible. We limit TV in gerneral and prohibit anything that sems too violent or too sexually explicit, but do not ban much else. As with all thignsd, the rules and guidance changes in scope and focus depending on the age and capacity of the child.

To tel you the truth, if I was smart, I would probably not have a TV.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

While I have great personal distatse for the disney shows, I tend not to ban things from my house unless they are clearly over the line. If ind the problems with the Disney products much like those you sem to feel about Snow white. They are an insidious influence that undermiones some of the values I hold dear. To be more precise, I think they tend to encourage a sense of entitlement, discourage hard work, show disregard for the timportance of family (other than in a tidy wrap it up at the end of an episode way) make parents look stupid, and the music is really bad.

AS others pointed out, however, kids get this in genreal from a lot of sources We try (and have tried) to teach good prinicples, to expose the kids to better quality materials and to emphasize the good and quality wherever possible. We limit TV in gerneral and prohibit anything that sems too violent or too sexually explicit, but do not ban much else. As with all thignsd, the rules and guidance changes in scope and focus depending on the age and capacity of the child.

To tel you the truth, if I was smart, I would probably not have a TV.

I say let it all hang out, so truth and error can wrestle before their immature little minds.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

So do you let Hannah Montana in? Or just counterbalance it by your example? Do you watch it enough to know the content? I've never actually seen the show, although I know it's everywhere. What are the objections you have

My primary objection to HM is the clothing line it has inspired. You've got four year olds dressing in Britney-style sexy little pop star outfits. Four year olds should NOT be dressed in haltertops, black lace, and leopard print miniskirts. I swear parents are idiots.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

My primary objection to HM is the clothing line it has inspired. You've got four year olds dressing in Britney-style sexy little pop star outfits. Four year olds should NOT be dressed in haltertops, black lace, and leopard print miniskirts. I swear parents are idiots.

Good point. I forgot about that, as my daughter is now a little older. But this is definitelty true.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

My primary objection to HM is the clothing line it has inspired. You've got four year olds dressing in Britney-style sexy little pop star outfits. Four year olds should NOT be dressed in haltertops, black lace, and leopard print miniskirts. I swear parents are idiots.

Yes, four year olds should be dressed in Sooner Girl attire.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

I (and BG) made several statements about reasons why I find that story offensive. I stand by those, regardless of who agrees.

Your responses have been to call my points "nonsense" or "reading too much in." You have not defended the story or explained why your judgment about its redeeming value is correct or ourweighs the concerns I express, if you are willing to concede they are real (which I doubt).

I'm sure your concerns are real, I simply disagree with them. And just so we're clear, I didn't call your concerns or your points nonsense. I called your sarcastic suggestion that parents shouldn't screen their children's entertainment rhetorical nonsense.

As for point-by-point defenses, I really don't care that much to "defend" Snow White. The prospect seems so silly to me as to deserve ridicule rather than seriousness. I suppose that's what annoys you the most.

As portrayed in the Disney version, it's a cute, harmless little story that has entertained kids for decades. The points noted by Barbara about a white girl slavishly cleaning up after 7 bachelor slobs just make me literally laugh out loud. Adults get so wound up in their own prejudices and PC insecurities that they (IMO) forget that kids don't really care.

For me, it's like racist charges against Star Wars. Or that a Christmas tree or a "Merry Christmas" poster or a nativity scene threatens non-Christians or is discriminatory. Or that the Golden Compass is going to turn all our kids into atheists. It really makes me want to ask, "Don't you people have any real problems?"

There are battles worth fighting in entertainment. Pervasiveness of pornography. Violence on television. Excessive profanity and the resulting coarseness in society.

Sorry, but to me, Snow White is just not one of those missions. On the list of things that I consider threatening or detrimental to kids, Snow White and Hannah Montana fall way low on the list.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

Sorry, but to me, Snow White is just not one of those missions. On the list of things that I consider threatening or detrimental to kids, Snow White and Hannah Montana fall way low on the list.

Tex, please take this as a sincere quesiton, but do you have children, and specifically do you have a daughter? I would have agreed with what you write here until I had kids and in aprticualr until I had a daughter. When my daughter was born I was suddenly aware unlike I had been before of a world full of subtle but powerful messages telling her what she is supposed to be good at, and what she is supposed to do and how she needs to behave. It suddenly bothered me a lot more than it ever did before.

I would not censor the snow white sotry, as I said before, but I can certainly understand the reasons RHG might think she would want to do it.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

Tex, please take this as a sincere quesiton, but do you have children, and specifically do you have a daughter? I would have agreed with what you write here until I had kids and in aprticualr until I had a daughter. When my daughter was born I was suddenly aware unlike I had been before of a world full of subtle but powerful messages telling her what she is supposed to be good at, and what she is supposed to do and how she needs to behave. It suddenly bothered me a lot more than it ever did before.

I would not censor the snow white sotry, as I said before, but I can certainly understand the reasons RHG might think she would want to do it.

I agree censoring these stories probably isn't the answer, but placing your daughters in positions of power within the family and denuding her of the emphasis on looks for success may be the proper place to start. How the hell should I know though, as my two daughters emphasize appearance as much as anybody else.

I remember my daughter number one's first experience with soccer at some tender age, and father A was somewhat impatient with her running daintily on the field, shouting, "stop running like a girl."

To which the retort was, "but Daddy, I am a girl."

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by creekster

Tex, please take this as a sincere quesiton, but do you have children, and specifically do you have a daughter? I would have agreed with what you write here until I had kids and in aprticualr until I had a daughter. When my daughter was born I was suddenly aware unlike I had been before of a world full of subtle but powerful messages telling her what she is supposed to be good at, and what she is supposed to do and how she needs to behave. It suddenly bothered me a lot more than it ever did before.

Exactly. I'm glad I only have boys. All I have to worry about are the annual visits to the ER.