Des News asked the question

[Archaea]

which some detest and some are wont to ask.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...267789,00.html

Can you guess what it is?

Nonetheless, none of us will live to see the day we have a foreign born Prophet, and very few of us will live to see a non-European apostle. It will happen some day and perhaps I exaggerate, but it seems to be another twenty years into the future. Demographically, the Church always lags behind, but it eventually follows demographics, like it or not. Most of us will be 71's age by the time that happens though. More of the same ole, same ole.

Some talks okay.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Nonetheless, none of us will live to see the day we have a foreign born Prophet, and very few of us will live to see a non-European apostle.

It may be likely that we (those on cougarguard) will not have a foreign born prophet during are lifetime but there has been, of course, a foreign born prophet already: John Taylor. So we have already lived to see that day as a people. But I do understand larger point. Sorry for the distraction from that point

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

which some detest and some are wont to ask.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...267789,00.html

Can you guess what it is?

Nonetheless, none of us will live to see the day we have a foreign born Prophet, and very few of us will live to see a non-European apostle. It will happen some day and perhaps I exaggerate, but it seems to be another twenty years into the future. Demographically, the Church always lags behind, but it eventually follows demographics, like it or not. Most of us will be 71's age by the time that happens though. More of the same ole, same ole.
Some talks okay.

With every vacancy in the Quorum of the 12, I think it would be pretty great if a Peruvian, or Italian, or Nigerian, etc., would get called into the 12. On a personal level, I would have been much more enthusiastic about a non-American being the new apostle. That said, Elder Christofferson appears to be a good choice, and I'm supportive of him and wish him the best.

So while I understand and sympathize with your point of view, take note of a couple of things.

First, those called into the 12 are generally in their 50s or 60s when called, and have been members for most of their lives. It doesn't have to be that way, but usually is. So the pool of candidates is primarily male members who were either born members between about 1940 and 1955, or were converts prior to about 1975, probably in the late 60s. In fact, 8 of the 12 members of the Quorum were born prior to 1940. So we shouldn't be surprised that the 1st Presidency and the 12 reflect the membership demographics of 60 years ago, when 90% or more of the members were from the United States.

Even in the late 60s, probably about 80% of church members were from the United States, so realistically, we ought to expect an about 80% probability that the new apostle would be an American. (The 80% figure is a rough guess, I have these numbers somewhere, but am too lazy to find them at the moment.) And since the real pool is active males, this number (assuming it is correct) is probably too low, since activity rates and male/female ratios in the church overseas are generally lower than they are in the United States.

[Archaea]

In reality, those of us past thirty really shouldn't care as the structure of the Church is for the youth and for the outside. The administrators, even upper level management, are not their for our entertainment edification or guidance.

We're not their target audience, so we probably should help, lift a few hearts, and stay out of the way as they guide the Church for the youth. The current administrators will be there for some time. Local management is probably more important in our daily affairs, and those managers reflect the local environs. Tahitian members are led by Tahitians and so forth. That is better than it once was.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

In reality, those of us past thirty really shouldn't care as the structure of the Church is for the youth and for the outside. The administrators, even upper level management, are not their for our entertainment edification or guidance.

We're not their target audience, so we probably should help, lift a few hearts, and stay out of the way as they guide the Church for the youth. The current administrators will be there for some time. Local management is probably more important in our daily affairs, and those managers reflect the local environs. Tahitian members are led by Tahitians and so forth. That is better than it once was.

And to Elder Chistofferson's point at the press conference, the Quorums of the 70 are pretty diverse at this point. But they tend to be younger when called, there are more of them, and there is an Emeritus status to keep it a bit younger. While I think it would be fantastic to have an black or Latino apostle, I do agree that it will be a case of natural progression. The bottom line is that with the Quorum of the 12 being the gerontacracy that it is, the makeup of it lags a good 4 or 5 decades behind the general demographics of the church. And this will likely get even longer as life expectancies continue to increase. I won't be the least big surprised if we see a 100+ year old prophet in our lifetimes.

[MikeWaters]

Does it really matter who is chosen as an apostle as long as they keep the ship running at the same speed, in the same direction?

I've never had an apostle speak in my ward or stake.

The GAs seem like very far away figures that are operating in a black box. I'm not saying this to disparage them, rather, I commend them for doing very important things. It's just not very visible to people far away, I think.

Sounds like it is different for you guys in Utah that have hundreds of stories of apostles.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've never had an apostle speak in my ward or stake. The GAs seem like very far away figures that are operating in a black box. I'm not saying this to disparage them, rather, I commend them for doing very important things. It's just not very visible to people far away, I think.
Sounds like it is different for you guys in Utah that have hundreds of stories of apostles.

Elder Oaks was here for the Richardson Stake Conference just last month. And Elder Eyring came to a stake conference in Lewisville when we livied in Flower Mound about 5 years ago. Elder Nelson came to a stake conference on my mission (Erie, Pennsylvania).

So it's not like they never got to Stake Conference in the US.

BTW, Elder Oaks was hilarious at stake conference. 180 degrees different from General Conference. He was cracking jokes all night long in the Saturday evening session and on Sunday he was a bit more subdued but certainly not like GC.

[MikeWaters]

The guy who was made apostle right before Christofferson.....he was at our stake conference a year or so ago.

Never did I think he would be an apostle in just a short time. He seemed like a nice enough guy.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've never had an apostle speak in my ward or stake.

The GAs seem like very far away figures that are operating in a black box. I'm not saying this to disparage them, rather, I commend them for doing very important things. It's just not very visible to people far away, I think.

Sounds like it is different for you guys in Utah that have hundreds of stories of apostles.

Elder Eyring and Elder Oaks (the 70) spoke at a Stake Conference in Dayton last year. They didn't go to Columbus. Speaks volumes.

[Gifted Fish]

I agree that the nationality/background of an apostle probably should not really matter much in substance -- Christ didn't summon his apostles from remote corners of the world. But for those who try to watch (or are guilt-tripped into watching) the talks each conference, I enjoy a little more variety of viewpoints. In my hierarchy of who I enjoy listening to, Uchtdorf is in the top tier, and the guy with a British/Australian(?) accent today was refreshing.

Speakers' varying personalities and backgrounds bring out different thought processes for me, and some of the most refreshing talks are those from the guys who I can barely understand. When someone doesn't speak English as their native language, it lends an air of sincerity to what they are saying.

I guess I should just accept the fact that many of the most valiant spirits in the pre-existence must have been sent to Utah so they could be known in the right circles for their eventual calls.