Having a Temple Recommend Doesn't Impress Me - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Indy Coug · 10-10-2007, 05:35 PM

Here are some very basic examples from my extended family, which has helped shape my opinion:

1. My brother-in-law's wife was verbally and emotionally abused by her mother. Her mom even got involved with arranging for her to be married in a polygamous family when she was around 14 to 16 years old. She ended up being taken by the state and placed into foster care. At least a couple other siblings also went into foster care. The cumulative abuse over the years caused my BIL's wife to suffer with depression and she ended up overdosing at the age of 22, leaving my BIL widowed and their 18 month old son without a mother.

Despite what her mother had done over the years and despite the fact that her other kids were still in foster care, she got a temple recommend and went to the temple and did the temple work for her daughter. My BIL was inactive and because of what his MIL did and the fact that the church allowed her to get a temple recommend, he has vowed he will never go to church again.

2. My brother's MIL has spent a lifetime of emotional and verbal abuse of her husband and children. She is literally infamous in the area where she lives. She continues to abuse his wife even after she's been out of the home for years. My brother, who is infinitely more mild-mannered than I am, has read her the riot act and temporarily cut off contact with the MIL. Despite the fact that the bishop, stake president, and hundreds of others that are aware of her act over the years, she continues to have a temple recommend.

3. My wife's sister got divorced from her husband after a couple of years of a terrible marriage. Her husband was into meth and other crap. After getting divorced, he beat her a couple of times over disputes about custody and how horribly he neglected his son when he would have visits. Despite that, he still somehow managed to wrangle a temple recommend along with his mother (who also is another real winner in her own right).

These 3 examples are all of people that were involved in sustained and serious wrongdoing and showed no signs of changing their actions. How or why they got recommends is beyond me.

BYU71 · 10-10-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Here are some very basic examples from my extended family, which has helped shape my opinion:

1. My brother-in-law's wife was verbally and emotionally abused by her mother. Her mom even got involved with arranging for her to be married in a polygamous family when she was around 14 to 16 years old. She ended up being taken by the state and placed into foster care. At least a couple other siblings also went into foster care. The cumulative abuse over the years caused my BIL's wife to suffer with depression and she ended up overdosing at the age of 22, leaving my BIL widowed and their 18 month old son without a mother.

Despite what her mother had done over the years and despite the fact that her other kids were still in foster care, she got a temple recommend and went to the temple and did the temple work for her daughter. My BIL was inactive and because of what his MIL did and the fact that the church allowed her to get a temple recommend, he has vowed he will never go to church again.

2. My brother's MIL has spent a lifetime of emotional and verbal abuse of her husband and children. She is literally infamous in the area where she lives. She continues to abuse his wife even after she's been out of the home for years. My brother, who is infinitely more mild-mannered than I am, has read her the riot act and temporarily cut off contact with the MIL. Despite the fact that the bishop, stake president, and hundreds of others that are aware of her act over the years, she continues to have a temple recommend.

3. My wife's sister got divorced from her husband after a couple of years of a terrible marriage. Her husband was into meth and other crap. After getting divorced, he beat her a couple of times over disputes about custody and how horribly he neglected his son when he would have visits. Despite that, he still somehow managed to wrangle a temple recommend along with his mother (who also is another real winner in her own right).

These 3 examples are all of people that were involved in sustained and serious wrongdoing and showed no signs of changing their actions. How or why they got recommends is beyond me.

So why do you get so upset at me when I call the honor code meaningless.

Is it because I talk about it so much and you actually would agree with me if I talked about it less.

Tex · 10-10-2007, 05:40 PM

Those are some sad stories, Indy.

I recognize the rationale behind the prophets' counsel (particularly Hunter) to always be worthy of your temple recommend, and I agree with it.

But that said, I think the holding of a temple recommend has become overemphasized as the measure of our membership. It's somehow morphed into, "as long as I can hold a temple recommend, I can do anything else I want." Somehow I don't think that was the intent.

Indy Coug · 10-10-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

So why do you get so upset at me when I call the honor code meaningless.

In a nutshell.

1. I believe BYU should have a standard of conduct with the ability to hold those accountable that fall significantly short of those standards.

2. I believe BYU could do a lot better job with implementation and enforcement.

Quote:

Is it because I talk about it so much and you actually would agree with me if I talked about it less.

Atomizing a dead horse is not a productive way to convert people to your way of thinking.

BYU71 · 10-10-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

In a nutshell.

1. I believe BYU should have a standard of conduct with the ability to hold those accountable that fall significantly short of those standards.

2. I believe BYU could do a lot better job with implementation and enforcement.

Atomizing a dead horse is not a productive way to convert people to your way of thinking.

You know me well enough to know I am not trying to convert people to my way of thinking. I look for opportunities to mock those who don't think like me.

I know, character flaw.

cougjunkie · 10-10-2007, 05:57 PM

Reminds me of my aunt, she has a serious history of narcotics abuse, specifically pain medication. This has been going on for at least 15 years. She lives in California but she has been out to Utah and lived with my parents on several different occassions between rehab stints. She has stolen from my mom, she has used stolen checks to obtain prescription medicine and she has at least 100 doctors with different ailments to obtain this medication.

She even called my mom a few months ago to tell her that her lung collapse but not to worry they blew it back up. Well her son was married and lo and behold she shows up at the temple with a reccomend and attends the sealing. Maybe she is the reason for the barcodes.

Since then, she has sent my mom some emails here are some excerpts:

"I was just called as primary president in my ward, i was wondering if i could stay with you for about 6 months, while i attend training in Salt Lake"

"My visiting teacher came over last night and told me that she was attracted to me, i let her touch me but now i feel bad"

(my last name is miller and we used to live in benicia, california)

"my home teachers name is miller and he lives on benicia street, that is so ironic, are you related?"

This woman has some serious issues, she told her son that it takes her 15 lortabs for them to have any effect at all.

creekster · 10-10-2007, 06:44 PM

When you go to the interview you respond and it is on you if you do it untruthfully. How can you balme the interviewer for letting someone in that isn't really worthy? If they knew, as in one of the examples in this thread, that might be different, but if they don't know, isn't it on the interviewee?

Indy Coug · 10-10-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

When you go to the interview you respond and it is on you if you do it untruthfully. How can you balme the interviewer for letting someone in that isn't really worthy? If they knew, as in one of the examples in this thread, that might be different, but if they don't know, isn't it on the interviewee?

I definitely agree it is primarily on the interviewee, but I know for a fact that one of the bishops knew what they were up to and the other two must have barely moved into the area not to have known what was going on.

But to be clear, this thread isn't intended to be a "bishop ex-pose-ay", but rather a commentary on whether or not "so and so has a temple recommend" can be construed as some basic benchmark on how good a person they are.

Archaea · 10-10-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

When you go to the interview you respond and it is on you if you do it untruthfully. How can you balme the interviewer for letting someone in that isn't really worthy? If they knew, as in one of the examples in this thread, that might be different, but if they don't know, isn't it on the interviewee?

Here is a key distinction the answer to which I don't know. At what point is the interviewer to assess the truthfulness of the interviewee. When does an interviewer get to determine somebody is untruthful and not allow that person to pass.

ute4ever · 10-10-2007, 08:06 PM

Getting a temple recommend is easier than getting baptized in South America. All a person has to do is answer yes or no to ten questions, and it is not difficult to discern which answer is the correct one.

But at the same time, the people who lie in the interview are not the kind who "fear" God or punishment. Those same people tend to only attend the temple on ward temple nights, or their friends endowments and sealings. It's not about having a relationship with God; it's about appearances.

10-10-2007, 05:35 PM	#1
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Having a Temple Recommend Doesn't Impress Me Here are some very basic examples from my extended family, which has helped shape my opinion: 1. My brother-in-law's wife was verbally and emotionally abused by her mother. Her mom even got involved with arranging for her to be married in a polygamous family when she was around 14 to 16 years old. She ended up being taken by the state and placed into foster care. At least a couple other siblings also went into foster care. The cumulative abuse over the years caused my BIL's wife to suffer with depression and she ended up overdosing at the age of 22, leaving my BIL widowed and their 18 month old son without a mother. Despite what her mother had done over the years and despite the fact that her other kids were still in foster care, she got a temple recommend and went to the temple and did the temple work for her daughter. My BIL was inactive and because of what his MIL did and the fact that the church allowed her to get a temple recommend, he has vowed he will never go to church again. 2. My brother's MIL has spent a lifetime of emotional and verbal abuse of her husband and children. She is literally infamous in the area where she lives. She continues to abuse his wife even after she's been out of the home for years. My brother, who is infinitely more mild-mannered than I am, has read her the riot act and temporarily cut off contact with the MIL. Despite the fact that the bishop, stake president, and hundreds of others that are aware of her act over the years, she continues to have a temple recommend. 3. My wife's sister got divorced from her husband after a couple of years of a terrible marriage. Her husband was into meth and other crap. After getting divorced, he beat her a couple of times over disputes about custody and how horribly he neglected his son when he would have visits. Despite that, he still somehow managed to wrangle a temple recommend along with his mother (who also is another real winner in her own right). These 3 examples are all of people that were involved in sustained and serious wrongdoing and showed no signs of changing their actions. How or why they got recommends is beyond me.

10-10-2007, 05:40 PM	#3
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	Those are some sad stories, Indy. I recognize the rationale behind the prophets' counsel (particularly Hunter) to always be worthy of your temple recommend, and I agree with it. But that said, I think the holding of a temple recommend has become overemphasized as the measure of our membership. It's somehow morphed into, "as long as I can hold a temple recommend, I can do anything else I want." Somehow I don't think that was the intent. __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

10-10-2007, 05:57 PM	#6
cougjunkie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 5,741	Reminds me of my aunt, she has a serious history of narcotics abuse, specifically pain medication. This has been going on for at least 15 years. She lives in California but she has been out to Utah and lived with my parents on several different occassions between rehab stints. She has stolen from my mom, she has used stolen checks to obtain prescription medicine and she has at least 100 doctors with different ailments to obtain this medication. She even called my mom a few months ago to tell her that her lung collapse but not to worry they blew it back up. Well her son was married and lo and behold she shows up at the temple with a reccomend and attends the sealing. Maybe she is the reason for the barcodes. Since then, she has sent my mom some emails here are some excerpts: "I was just called as primary president in my ward, i was wondering if i could stay with you for about 6 months, while i attend training in Salt Lake" "My visiting teacher came over last night and told me that she was attracted to me, i let her touch me but now i feel bad" (my last name is miller and we used to live in benicia, california) "my home teachers name is miller and he lives on benicia street, that is so ironic, are you related?" This woman has some serious issues, she told her son that it takes her 15 lortabs for them to have any effect at all. __________________ LINCECUM!

10-10-2007, 06:44 PM	#7
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	When you go to the interview you respond and it is on you if you do it untruthfully. How can you balme the interviewer for letting someone in that isn't really worthy? If they knew, as in one of the examples in this thread, that might be different, but if they don't know, isn't it on the interviewee? __________________ Sorry for th e tpyos.

10-10-2007, 08:06 PM	#10
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Getting a temple recommend is easier than getting baptized in South America. All a person has to do is answer yes or no to ten questions, and it is not difficult to discern which answer is the correct one. But at the same time, the people who lie in the interview are not the kind who "fear" God or punishment. Those same people tend to only attend the temple on ward temple nights, or their friends endowments and sealings. It's not about having a relationship with God; it's about appearances.