Civil liberties we are losing? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

NorCal Cat · 07-03-2007, 08:00 PM

Exactly which civil liberties have been lost due to the Patriot Act, or other Bush Admin policies? I hear these liberals whining about this, yet I don't see how the Patriot Act or anything else has affected my civil liberties other than having to sign some extra forms when I get a mortgage or something similar.

Tex · 07-03-2007, 08:03 PM

The terrorists in Gitmo are not getting a quick and speedy trial, and that bothers some people.

Archaea · 07-03-2007, 08:08 PM

Both of you are not libertarians, not lawyers and not concerned about the processes used in administering justice. That's fine, and to you we may sound like histrionic women.

But examine the history of our civil liberties, reading up on them through the forties, fifties and sixties. These rights of process were fought long and hard to protect the innocent, not the guilty. It is simplistic, but it's true, we'd prefer a number of guilty get let off than one innocent be convicted improperly. That's the heart of the civil liberty debate, protecting innocence, and making government do its job.

If you or your loved ones ever end up on the wrong side of this debate, your perspective will change drastically.

The real world is much different that coding javascript.

BigFatMeanie · 07-03-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

The real world is much different that coding javascript.

Arch, as a software developer (if indeed Tex is a programmer which I don't know for certain) I've got to call you out on this - why bring a man's occupation into it? Being a software developer is an honorable and profitable profession that has done much good for mankind. You, sir, are a lawyer - one of the most reviled and hated professions in the country. I'll try not to take jabs at the fact that you are a lawyer but I'll also say that you're definitely living in a glass house when it comes to occupation.

Now, if you're bagging on Javascript because it's not considered something that real developers do, then I would say take a look at what Google does with google maps, gmail, etc. - it's all AJAX development which is all about Javascript.

P.S. - I don't regularly program in Javascript myself. I'm a C/C++/C# man.

Jeff Lebowski · 07-03-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Arch, as a software developer (if indeed Tex is a programmer which I don't know for certain) I've got to call you out on this - why bring a man's occupation into it? Being a software developer is an honorable and profitable profession that has done much good for mankind. You, sir, are a lawyer - one of the most reviled and hated professions in the country. I'll try not to take jabs at the fact that you are a lawyer but I'll also say that you're definitely living in a glass house when it comes to occupation.

Now, if you're bagging on Javascript because it's not considered something that real developers do, then I would say take a look at what Google does with google maps, gmail, etc. - it's all AJAX development which is all about Javascript.

P.S. - I don't regularly program in Javascript myself. I'm a C/C++/C# man.

Actually, that makes me respect Tex a bit more. Programming takes a lot of smarts.

FMCoug · 07-03-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Arch, as a software developer (if indeed Tex is a programmer which I don't know for certain) I've got to call you out on this - why bring a man's occupation into it? Being a software developer is an honorable and profitable profession that has done much good for mankind. You, sir, are a lawyer - one of the most reviled and hated professions in the country. I'll try not to take jabs at the fact that you are a lawyer but I'll also say that you're definitely living in a glass house when it comes to occupation.

Now, if you're bagging on Javascript because it's not considered something that real developers do, then I would say take a look at what Google does with google maps, gmail, etc. - it's all AJAX development which is all about Javascript.

P.S. - I don't regularly program in Javascript myself. I'm a C/C++/C# man.

If you include guys like Indy and Jay Santos and the scientiests, whose occupations usually tend to require a fair amount of programming, we may actually have as many "programmers" on here as lawyers! There is hope for CG yet.

Programmers of CougarGuard:
FMCoug
BigFatMeanie
Tex

Any others to add? I won't add Indy or Jay until they say they actually do programming in SAS, etc.

Jeff Lebowski · 07-03-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMCoug

If you include guys like Indy and Jay Santos and the scientiests, whose occupations usually tend to require a fair amount of programming, we may actually have as many "programmers" on here as lawyers! There is hope for CG yet.

Programmers of CougarGuard:
FMCoug
BigFatMeanie
Tex

Any others to add? I won't add Indy or Jay until they say they actually do programming in SAS, etc.

I am not a full-time programmer, but I have done plenty of programming in my career. At one time or another I have coded:

FORTRAN
Pascal
Modula-2
LISP
C
C++
C#
VB
Java
PHP

BigFatMeanie · 07-03-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

FORTRAN
Pascal
Modula-2

Old fogey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

LISP

Nerd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

VB

Dork

Jeff Lebowski · 07-03-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Old fogey

Nerd

Dork

LOL! Guilty on all counts.

Indy Coug · 07-03-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMCoug

If you include guys like Indy and Jay Santos and the scientiests, whose occupations usually tend to require a fair amount of programming, we may actually have as many "programmers" on here as lawyers! There is hope for CG yet.

Programmers of CougarGuard:
FMCoug
BigFatMeanie
Tex

Any others to add? I won't add Indy or Jay until they say they actually do programming in SAS, etc.

Indy Coug http://www.andesaservices.com/about.asp

I program in Pascal, which I know is Stone Age, but it seems to do the job and pay the bills. I also have done programming in APL and VBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language)

07-03-2007, 08:00 PM	#1
NorCal Cat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Where do you think? Posts: 1,201	Civil liberties we are losing? Exactly which civil liberties have been lost due to the Patriot Act, or other Bush Admin policies? I hear these liberals whining about this, yet I don't see how the Patriot Act or anything else has affected my civil liberties other than having to sign some extra forms when I get a mortgage or something similar.

07-03-2007, 08:03 PM	#2
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	The terrorists in Gitmo are not getting a quick and speedy trial, and that bothers some people. __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

07-03-2007, 08:08 PM	#3
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Both of you are not libertarians, not lawyers and not concerned about the processes used in administering justice. That's fine, and to you we may sound like histrionic women. But examine the history of our civil liberties, reading up on them through the forties, fifties and sixties. These rights of process were fought long and hard to protect the innocent, not the guilty. It is simplistic, but it's true, we'd prefer a number of guilty get let off than one innocent be convicted improperly. That's the heart of the civil liberty debate, protecting innocence, and making government do its job. If you or your loved ones ever end up on the wrong side of this debate, your perspective will change drastically. The real world is much different that coding javascript. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα