If the Church cares so much about marriage...

[MikeWaters]

I wonder why common-law marriages, where I served my mission, were considered permissible. However in other sections of my mission, common-law marriages were deemed not sufficient. In those cases marriage almost always directly preceded baptism.

And yes, weddings did take place where I was, though I wouldn't say they were the majority of couples/families.

I don't have a problem with it, but it's curious how a church decision can suddenly wipe formal marriage off of the books as a requirement for membership (when two people are living together).

[stonewallperry]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I wonder why common-law marriages, where I served my mission, were considered permissible. However in other sections of my mission, common-law marriages were deemed not sufficient. In those cases marriage almost always directly preceded baptism.

And yes, weddings did take place where I was, though I wouldn't say they were the majority of couples/families.

I don't have a problem with it, but it's curious how a church decision can suddenly wipe formal marriage off of the books as a requirement for membership (when two people are living together).

Wow...in my mission regardless of how long two people had lived together unless they were legally married they couldn't be baptized - and this was frequently, an issue.

[danimal]

On a related note, my understanding is that the church has been supportive of legislation in south america to make divorce easier. Apparently the laws make it so difficult to divorce that most split-up couples are never divorced -- they move on and end up moving in with another person that they can never legally marry, and thus can't be baptized.

So apparently relaxing divorce laws can strengthen marriage.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by danimal

On a related note, my understanding is that the church has been supportive of legislation in south america to make divorce easier. Apparently the laws make it so difficult to divorce that most split-up couples are never divorced -- they move on and end up moving in with another person that they can never legally marry, and thus can't be baptized.

So apparently relaxing divorce laws can strengthen marriage.

This is the same in Italy. Almost all marriages in Italy are performed by Catholic Priest. If a couple wants a religious ceremony but it is not performed by a Catholic priest, they are encouraged to marry civilly first, in order to ensure that the marriage is legal. It is almost impossible to get a divorce after a Catholic wedding in Italy, so most couple split up and live with their partner. And like in So. America, those who want to be baptized are unable to do so until they can divorce their first spouse and legally marry their live-in partner, which is pretty much impossible.

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by stonewallperry

Wow...in my mission regardless of how long two people had lived together unless they were legally married they couldn't be baptized - and this was frequently, an issue.

Isn't a "common law" marriage still a legal marriage in jurisdictions that allow it?

[stonewallperry]

Originally Posted by danimal

On a related note, my understanding is that the church has been supportive of legislation in south america to make divorce easier. Apparently the laws make it so difficult to divorce that most split-up couples are never divorced -- they move on and end up moving in with another person that they can never legally marry, and thus can't be baptized.

So apparently relaxing divorce laws can strengthen marriage.

In Brazil it's not hard to get a divorce, just expensive. You have to hire an attorney to do it regardless of how agreeable the two parties are...and frequently they have no problems with each other, they're just moving on. I can't speak for the rest of South America though.

[stonewallperry]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Isn't a "common law" marriage still a legal marriage in jurisdictions that allow it?

In Brazil, after a couple has lived together five years (I think it's five, I've been home a few years and can't remember for sure), they are, by law, 'married' in that they receive the same benefits that spouses typically receive. We couldn't baptize these people until they were formally married.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

This is the same in Italy. Almost all marriages in Italy are performed by Catholic Priest. If a couple wants a religious ceremony but it is not performed by a Catholic priest, they are encouraged to marry civilly first, in order to ensure that the marriage is legal. It is almost impossible to get a divorce after a Catholic wedding in Italy, so most couple split up and live with their partner. And like in So. America, those who want to be baptized are unable to do so until they can divorce their first spouse and legally marry their live-in partner, which is pretty much impossible.

Are the laws in Italy that closely related to the Catholic church? you would think the state would allow divorce, but the church would not grant them.