My MTC experience got me thinking

[Taq Man]

I was reading Aldous Huxley's "Propaganda Under a Dictatorship" It was interesting to me to see how similar Nazi tactics are to religous structure, As Hitler's biographer Hermann Raushning wrote:
"Hitler has a deep respect for the Catholic church and the Jesuit order; not because of their doctrine, but because of the machinery they have elaborated and controlled, their hieraqrchical system, their extemely clever tactics, their knowlege of human nature and their wise use of human weaknesses in ruling over believers"

I had been to several youth conferences growing up where at some point everyone gathered for the climax of the conference. The large scale testimony meeting. This large scale group meeting was even more pronounced in the MTC. There was serious pressure to get up and bear your testimony, to act the part, to "fake it till ya feel it". again from Huxley:

"Assembled in a crowd, people lose their powers of reasoning and their capacity for moral choice. Their suggestibility is increased to the point where they cease to have any judgment or will of their own. They become very excitable, they lose all sense of individual or collective responsibility, they are subject to sudden accesses of rage, enthusiasm and panic. In a word, a man in a crowd behaves as though he had swallowed a large dose of some powerful intoxicant. He is a victim of what I have called herd poisoning."

A charismatic speaker in front of a lare group of people who have been told they should be feeling a certain way can be a powerful tool for manipulation.
Huxley goes on to say:

"Christ promised to be present where two or three are gathered together. He did not say anything about being present where thousands are intoxicating one another with herd poison."

Food for thought on a Sunday morning.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Taq Man, I can see by your number of posts that you are quite new here. I hope you stick around. You seem to be be quite bright and I think you will enjoy some of the discussions we have here. But may I suggest that you relax a bit. There is a hard edge and a contempt running through most of your posts that is not really necessary with this crowd. And the Hitler allusions and smartass comments about herd mentality really aren't going to earn you that much credibility. Nor are they going to shock us.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Taq Man, I can see by your number of posts that you are quite new here. I hope you stick around. You seem to be be quite bright and I think you will enjoy some of the discussions we have here. But may I suggest that you relax a bit. There is a hard edge and a contempt running through most of your posts that is not really necessary with this crowd. And the Hitler allusions and smartass comments about herd mentality really aren't going to earn you that much credibility. Nor are they going to shock us.

Amen.

As if we are going to be shocked into unbelief. Or offended.

I never once stood up in those meetings. And here I am today.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Amen.

As if we are going to be shocked into unbelief. Or offended.

I never once stood up in those meetings. And here I am today.

I used to stand up in those Youth Conference testimony meetings. Chicks dig a guy with a testimony.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Amen.

As if we are going to be shocked into unbelief. Or offended.

I never once stood up in those meetings. And here I am today.

Fantastic point for the new disaffecteds.

I liken it to the concept arising from politics, called, "Outrage of the Newly Informed."

Taqman and Aaron Shaf exhibit this quality.

[il Padrino Ute]

Ah yes, Youth Conference testimony meetings.

When I was 14, we went to Snow College for our Youth Conference and had the meeting on the hill near the Manti Temple.

My only memory of it is not faith promoting, but suffice to say that I learned there is no subtle way to pass gas that day.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I used to stand up in those Youth Conference testimony meetings. Chicks dig a guy with a testimony.

See, Taq Man. This is what I am talking about. NS is an apostate with a sense of humor.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

See, Taq Man. This is what I am talking about. NS is an apostate with a sense of humor.

Duly noted. I read the Huxley article in college at the Y and the religion connection never crossed my mind. I was putting my books away this weekend and re-read the essay. I found it interesting how much my perspective has changed.

I'm not trying to shock or zing anybody with my posts as I think that 99% of the people who post here are just as informed if not more so than I am about contraversial church subjects. I thought it was interesting and so I posted.

I'll try to work some schtick into future postings.

[8ballrollin]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

A charismatic speaker in front of a lare group of people who have been told they should be feeling a certain way can be a powerful tool for manipulation.

In regards to Huxley’s point, I've had a different experience within the Church. I find 99% percent of General Conference addresses and even weekly talks to be very uncharismatic. Personally, I enjoy the un-EFYness of conference talks.

As to youth meetings his point may be more applicable. When I was a youth, I normally skipped out on those meeting or they didn’t have much of an impact on me – none come to mind.

I think Huxley’s point applies to sporting events, sales meetings, corporate morale events, political conventions (any party), and religious services equally.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by 8ballrollin

In regards to Huxley’s point, I've had a different experience within the Church. I find 99% percent of General Conference addresses and even weekly talks to be very uncharismatic. Personally, I enjoy the un-EFYness of conference talks.

As to youth meetings his point may be more applicable. When I was a youth, I normally skipped out on those meeting or they didn’t have much of an impact on me – none come to mind.

I think Huxley’s point applies to sporting events, sales meetings, corporate morale events, political conventions (any party), and religious services equally.

I agree. In fact, I would argue that the enthusiastic herd mentality that Taq is talking about is even less present in LDS culture than it is in virtually any other group setting. Testimony meeting is very dry. I have never been to a testimony meeting where the crowd was whipped into a frenzy. GC is even more dry. In fact, rather than get worked into a frenzy with each successive speaker, I would imagine most people get progressively more sleepy.

You also almost always see the same people bearing their testimony in church month after month. This indicates to me that most people don't feel pressured to stand and bear their testimony. I certainly don't.

Certainly the group mentality aspect is present in the LDS church to an extent. It is present in any group or organization to an extent. But I would suggest that it is less present in the LDS church than the average church, sporting event, concert, school, large corporation, etc.