What, exactly, is objectionable about "socialism"?

[Mormon Red Death]

This quote sums up why socialism is bad:

"Thus, at the root of the welfare state is the immorality of intimidation, threats and coercion backed up with the threat of violence by the agents of the U.S. Congress. In order for Congress to do what some Americans deem as good, it must first do evil. It must do that which, if done privately, would mean a jail sentence; namely, take the property of one American to give to another.

-Walter Williams Economist - George Mason University"

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

I don't know if that's true. Many of the innovative breakthroughs in medical research are coming from the UK, for example, which has a healthcare model that goes far beyond the Canadian model. (MDs are state employees. For a lot of good reasons, this model won't fly here.)

Many??? Like what?

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Many??? Like what?

Good question MRD.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Many (medical breakthroughs in UK) ?? Like what?

Here's a list of accomplishments from a UK tax payer funded organization, the MRC (Medical Research Council)

http://www.mrc.ac.uk/NewsViewsAndEvents/News/index.htm

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

This quote sums up why socialism is bad:

"Thus, at the root of the welfare state is the immorality of intimidation, threats and coercion backed up with the threat of violence by the agents of the U.S. Congress. In order for Congress to do what some Americans deem as good, it must first do evil. It must do that which, if done privately, would mean a jail sentence; namely, take the property of one American to give to another.

-Walter Williams Economist - George Mason University"

Doesn't this also apply to tax money for defense, the police, education? What if I don't agree with my tax money going to the (arguably immoral) war in Iraq? I'm being forceably coerced into supporting this cause by legalized theft from my income.

("Immorality of threats & coercion"... sounds like tithing!)

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by BYU71

they have a terrible health care system. At least that is what some Canadian told my brother the other day. He said a lot of people die waiting to get treated.

71, jsyk, there are tons of sound arguments against government-subsidized health care, but this is not one of them.

1. While some people are stuck at the back of the line, at least everyone there has a spot in line.
and
2. Our death rate is deplorable.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

71, jsyk, there are tons of sound arguments against government-subsidized health care, but this is not one of them.

1. While some people are stuck at the back of the line, at least everyone there has a spot in line.
and
2. Our death rate is deplorable.

lol. i thought you were taking him to task for citing "some Canadian" that told his brother.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

lol. i thought you were taking him to task for citing "some Canadian" that told his brother.

That's a whole different deal. I don't care about the source. (Note: this is the first time I've ever uttered those words.)

My point is that even if they could get all the anecdotal evidence in the world, or even if they could get a legitimate source like the actual stats on how many people die waiting in line (whatever that means) in Canada, they always conveniently omit the millions of Americans who have no place in line at all. Or the hundreds of thousands who die every year because of lack of proper treatment.

You hear or see this argument all the time, "but people will die while they're waiting!" Americans like to forget that people are dying here already.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

Risk is tied to reward, Ma'ake. Sure there are self-motivated people who will try to do a good job no matter what station they find themselves in. But in a capitalist system what drives innovation and risk-taking is reward.

I listened to a replay last night of a 2 hour interview Hugh Hewitt did with Victor Davis Hanson. He spoke of having appendicitis and requiring an emergency operation in Libya, I think it was. As he lay there recovering, he reflected on the system there that required the doctor who operated on him to be compensated exactly equally with the guy who mopped the floors.

In such a system, why try to excel? Your overachievers might anyway, out of pure type-A drive, but society as a whole will not.

exist in government, school system, DMV, USPS, and on and on. Look how motivated people there are who are living on welfare?

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by exUte

exist in government, school system, DMV, USPS, and on and on. Look how motivated people there are who are living on welfare?

My kids have outstanding teachers, I love our mailman, I know several who are working hard to get off of welfare. Another gross mischaracterization of people you know nothing about.