what does the sun, moon and stars on the nauvoo..... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

fusnik11 · 11-23-2005, 06:54 PM

temple symbolize?

does it mean...

sun=the father
moon=the christ
stars=the holy ghost and his helpers?

Archaea · 11-23-2005, 07:11 PM

but those could also stand for three differing degrees of glory.

myboynoah · 11-24-2005, 05:19 AM

. . . on the sunstones?

I heard a rumor once, with no attribution, that the face, if applied to a head, would reveal the likeness of The Savior.

Weird, huh?

SteelBlue · 12-15-2005, 03:59 AM

Here's one opinion:

http://users.marshall.edu/~brown/nauvoo/nt-parent.html

fusnik11 · 12-15-2005, 04:16 PM

thanks steel...

interesting he didnt know what the compass and the square on the weather vane meant.

Iluvatar · 12-30-2005, 08:44 PM

I'm sure they have multiple layers of meaning. At the surface, I'm sure they symbolize largely Christain/Mormon themes like the three degrees of glory, the father son and holy ghost, etc. I would submit, however, that they are also of masonic origin. It's well known that many of the bretheren were heavily involved with masonry and masonic symbology in Nauvoo. The masonic lodge in Nauvoo was the largest in the country. Moreover, the first "celestial marriages" (no need to open that can here), took place in the masonic lodge, not the temple.

Given that Joseph wore a Jupiter Talismen for most of his life (he died wearing it), and was known to be immersed in Swedenbourgian philosophy, I would wager that much of the symbolism on the temple had it's origins in European Paganism.

SteelBlue · 12-30-2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iluvatar

Given that Joseph wore a Jupiter Talismen for most of his life (he died wearing it), and was known to be immersed in Swedenbourgian philosophy, I would wager that much of the symbolism on the temple had it's origins in European Paganism.

There was an interesting article posted on the Jupiter Talisman somewhere in this religion section. Interesting stuff.

RE: Swedenborgian philosophy I'm not sure you can say that Joseph was "known to be immersed" in it. I quote from Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling regarding Joseph's vision of the 3 degrees of glory and some similar ideas from Swedenborg: "Since Swedenborg attracted the attention of New England intellectuals (his Treatise Concerning Heaven and Hell had its first American edition in 1812), his ideas may conceivably have drifted into Joseph Smith's environment, but it was more likely the passage from Paul sparked the revelations of both men."

You may have more information than I have read, but I've not seen anything that definitively states that Joseph immersed himself in Swedenborg's ideas at all.

Iluvatar · 12-31-2005, 04:58 AM

I've been looking for the source all day, and I can't remember where I read it. I recall a letter that he wrote to one of his friends (I want to say Sidney Rigdon, but I might be wrong). In it he mentions Swedenborg, and says something to the effect that Swedenborg was correct in many things, but lacked any real spiritual insight.

I'm sorry I can't be any more specific...I'll continue looking. I suspect it might be referenced in Palmer's book, I'll have to look.

Man, I need to spell check my posts occasionally. that last post was terrible!

11-23-2005, 06:54 PM	#1
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	what does the sun, moon and stars on the nauvoo..... temple symbolize? does it mean... sun=the father moon=the christ stars=the holy ghost and his helpers?

11-23-2005, 07:11 PM	#2
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	time to look it up but those could also stand for three differing degrees of glory. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

11-24-2005, 05:19 AM	#3
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	While we're on it, who or what was the model for the face . . . . on the sunstones? I heard a rumor once, with no attribution, that the face, if applied to a head, would reveal the likeness of The Savior. Weird, huh? __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

12-30-2005, 08:44 PM	#6
Iluvatar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 52	Sun, moon, stars... I'm sure they have multiple layers of meaning. At the surface, I'm sure they symbolize largely Christain/Mormon themes like the three degrees of glory, the father son and holy ghost, etc. I would submit, however, that they are also of masonic origin. It's well known that many of the bretheren were heavily involved with masonry and masonic symbology in Nauvoo. The masonic lodge in Nauvoo was the largest in the country. Moreover, the first "celestial marriages" (no need to open that can here), took place in the masonic lodge, not the temple. Given that Joseph wore a Jupiter Talismen for most of his life (he died wearing it), and was known to be immersed in Swedenbourgian philosophy, I would wager that much of the symbolism on the temple had it's origins in European Paganism. __________________ \"What we do in life echoes in eternity\"

12-31-2005, 04:58 AM	#8
Iluvatar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 52	I've been looking for the source all day, and I can't remember where I read it. I recall a letter that he wrote to one of his friends (I want to say Sidney Rigdon, but I might be wrong). In it he mentions Swedenborg, and says something to the effect that Swedenborg was correct in many things, but lacked any real spiritual insight. I'm sorry I can't be any more specific...I'll continue looking. I suspect it might be referenced in Palmer's book, I'll have to look. Man, I need to spell check my posts occasionally. that last post was terrible! __________________ \"What we do in life echoes in eternity\"

12-15-2005, 03:59 AM	#4
SteelBlue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norcal Posts: 5,821	Here's one opinion: http://users.marshall.edu/~brown/nauvoo/nt-parent.html

12-15-2005, 04:16 PM	#5
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	thanks steel... interesting he didnt know what the compass and the square on the weather vane meant.