Non-LDS Recruiting--response to AingeEraCoug's post

[jay santos]

AingeEraCoug on Cougarboard gave a great post on Myths about the Honor Code and Recruiting. Here is my response to it.

I lurk on that board on occasion now that I have been permanently banned from posting. Being banned from the board was a great blessing to me but on occasion I wish I could post like on an interesting topic like this. I believe this is by far the biggest issue the program is facing and if handled a certain way it will spell doom for the program.

AingeEraCoug's words are bolded.

1. The Honor Code is more strictly enforced today than under LaVell

There is not one shred of proof that the Honor Code is more strictly enforced today than under the LaVell era. Players/students get kicked out for (1) serious law breaking (2) serious sexual misconduct or (3) multiple less serious offenses. I challenge anyone to name a player, LDS or non-LDS, who was kicked out of BYU for a relatively minor infraction. I also challenge anyone to give me specifics in which LaVell covered up serious misconduct by his players. (I hope you have something better than a Jimmie Mac beer story).

I totally agree with no reservation. And I can’t believe people have such short memories that they think Lavell got a total pass and that the Honor Code started going after athletes only recently.


2. Having standards equals being self-righteous, judgmental, excessively image conscious, etc.

If this is true then basic Church doctrine is guilty of the same charges. Repentance and forgiveness doesn’t mean an absence of consequences. (I think every one on the board is pro-forgiveness; however a few appear to be anti-consequences -- especially if the kid can run a 4.4 forty.)

I don’t disagree with your statement but probably would disagree if you clarified and gave examples. I do believe the church has been a bit self-righteous, judgemental, and excessively image conscious when punishing BYU football players at times (not to say they shouldn’t kick out gang rapers—that goes without saying). And along with your statement I do believe the Church might be guilty of the same problem with respect to missionaries and church disciplinary courts at times. But that would entail a long, complicated doctrinal discussion that we don’t need to get into.

3. Honor Code breakers are better football players than Honor Code keepers.

This assumption has been an implied rather than stated. (eg. BYU has too many RMs). Do these guys remember Chad Lewis, Rob Morris, and John Tait? How many unrepentant BYU HC breakers made it to the NFL compared to the HC keepers?

4. Taking higher risk kids would improve the competitive posture of the team.

Many HC breakers have never contributed to the team, but have taken the spot of a kid who could have helped. For every Ronnie Jenkins there have been multiple HC washouts that have hurt the team more than they have helped. A more careful evaluation by the coaches will reduce the number of HC failures and improve BYU’s ability to compete.

The premise for #3 and #4 seem to be this idea that you can easily predict who will keep the HC and who will not. If you could go back and had the option not to recruit Braithwaite, Allen, Ah You, Benton, Mathis, Rashada, etc. and looked at it solely as a football decision, you’d measure the contribution Braithwaite and Allen made in one year compared to about 10 scholarships for other guys that could be experienced by now. It’s better never to have offered them. But how do you predict they’d be HC violators compared to others who have been good? I maintain there are simply two risk categories—LDS and non-LDS. What’s the difference between a B.J. Mathis and a Curtis Brown as a recruited athlete? Both are non-LDS, both come from Christian familes, both say they have no problem with HC even embrace it, both commit to live it. One becomes a suspected rapist one becomes a leader on the field and in the locker room and an example of great character. So I say it’s not fair to even pose the question Honor Code breakers to Honor Code keepers or even to make a general reference to “higher risk kids”. Let’s be real and call it what it is—LDS vs non-LDS.

So now the question becomes are non-LDS better than LDS? Or will taking non-LDS improve the competitive posture of the team? The answer to the first is, at some positions non-LDS are absolutely better than LDS. And since those positions are pretty important (corner, running back, WR, safety—in order of how great the divide is between Mormon talent pool and typically available to BYU non-LDS talent), the answer to the second question is unequivocally, yes.

5. Non-LDS kids will be turned off by the spiritual, “Sacrament Meeting” approach.

Not if the message is focused on shared Christian values. BYU's target recruiting base should be church going kids -- LDS or not.

I don’t know enough about Bronco’s “Sacrament Meeting” approach or what the reaction is by potential recruits to really comment. It feels a little heavy handed. I wish he would focus on football and let someone else like a team chaplain or counselor sell the recruits on the spiritual benefits of BYU. My gut feeling is that most LDS recruits really connect with it but some don’t and non-LDS probably don’t. We may be turning off some LDS recruits because they want to place football first above religion and missions—an immature but somewhat normal perspective for an 18 year old LDS jock kid. If you now say you’re going to not only exclude non-LDS but some of the LDS too, then you really have recruiting problems. I’ve never seen a year where we had so much trouble landing the top LDS—maybe it’s related to this new approach maybe to other forces.

6. We need 30% non-LDS to be competitive.

This assumption may have been true 20 years ago, but it is not true today. There are many more LDS athletes available today than in the 1980s and the Church is still growing much faster than the U.S. population. BYU may need a few non-LDS kids at the speed positions (DB, RB, WR), but there are plenty of practicing LDS kids at the other positions to build a big-time football program.

DB, RB, WR positions account for more than 30% of the team. In 2000, Lavell’s last year we had 15 on the roster or about 18%. Since many are JC’s, you have to recruit 5-7 per year to maintain that level. I think any less than that and you’ll likely have some serious talent gaps at important positions. Plus, you’ll never get all the top LDS for a few reasons. 1. Some are swayed by the big time big money atmospheres of the top BCS schools: Ben Olson, Mapu, etc. 2. Some won’t be fully invested in Bronco’s philosophy whether it be attitude or religion related: C.J. Ah You, Brock Stratton, Ofa, etc.. 3. Some won’t be recognized and will develop at lesser known schools: Kevin Curtis, Tulsa TE, some Utah players, etc.


7. BYU is not going to get most of the star LDS kids.

This assumption may actually be true; however, BYU will NEVER get the Reggie Bush type player. If BYU is to become great we need adequate player at every position with a few big-time playmakers sprinkled in. Realism tells me that we are considerably more likely to get the LDS kid with NFL potential than a non-LDS kid with NFL potential.

Bronco may fail with his values approach, but he is infinitely more likely to fail trying to fill 30% of his roster with high HC risks.

See answer from just above, but you still can’t answer the skill position problem. With all an LDS team, I don’t think we’re in Division 1 in 20 years. The 2005 team was the most LDS team in years (fewer LDS than any of the rosters I had going back 10 years), but where would have we been without C. Brown, Watkins, Coats, Reed, and Robinson? We were #55 with them. Without them maybe #80? How many top notch LDS recruits do we get after five years in a row in the 50-80 range with not much hope at a quick fix solution? Then we start losing top notch LDS recruits and what happens? It’s a spiral right down the toilet without non-LDS at BYU. Same goes for basketball if you want to take it further. Three of the 13 scholarship BB players are non-LDS. Next year it will be 4/13.


Indy Coug also had a good post on this and I’ll add here a point which wasn’t covered by Ainge Era Coug.

There are 5 million LDS members in the US. That membership is getting more and more diverse, as evidenced by Michael Moore and Buckner committing to BYU as African American LDS members.

That’s an interesting point. In 50 years, this might become valid, but I just don’t see that it is yet. In addition to Moore and Buckner you have Tico Pringle, Marcus Whalen, and Stanford had a good black LDS BB player. Still though, this is too small of a demographic to rely on. I’d like to see the numbers, but I’d guess there are less than 100K active black LDS in North America. That’s basically two or three high school’s worth of players. You might get a one or two recruits a year from this demographic which may reduce my per year target of 5-7 to 3-6 to get the kind of quality at the skill position we need.


Now I have a couple myths I’d like to throw out.

1. Honor Code violations on the football team are an embarrassment to BYU and the LDS church. Honor Code violations are the NORM at every other institution in America. National observers of the BYU program probably assume the non-LDS and probably LDS too don’t live the Honor Code 100% (and they’re right). Having the guts to punish or expel extreme and unrepentant violators of the Honor Code does nothing but reinforce the casual observer’s opinion of BYU and LDS church’s commitment to keeping its standards.

2. A football team consisting of all LDS athletes that bounces between #40 and #80 with high character guys and no HC violations brings more glory to God and the LDS church than the Lavell program of the 90’s with an average of an Honor Code incident a year but includes non-LDS and brings a lot of positive national attention.

3. No benefit is gained from having non-LDS on the team, outside of play on the field. The benefit on the field is obvious and is the focus of nearly every point of discussion. But there is also a large benefit of just having non-LDS on the team. We often have conversions by those athletes: Detmer, K. Hall, J. Willis (?), Thurl Bailey (yeah I know but same point), C. Brown. Those conversions, while of course being important to those men and their families also have a major feel-good effect to the BYU-LDS population. Also, I’m not non-LDS so I wouldn’t know but I have a feeling that when we field mixed teams, i.e. mostly LDS but also with key positions being manned by non-LDS we appeal more to the rest of the nation and appear less exclusionary. If the church is focused on image, is this image any better than one where we have occasional Honor Code violations?

Conclusion

I believe Bronco has it half right. I love his mentor program. I love how up front he is about the importance of living the Honor Code. I like his precautions with first year players and their living arrangements. Lavell of the 90’s was not a bad model. Crowton took it the other way by bringing in TOO MANY non-LDS (13 in one year). Bronco should go back to the level of non-LDS recruiting Lavell did and add in his management and he’ll have the program in a great place. Instead, I’m afraid he is going to knee jerk the opposite direction of Crowton and it will end up really hurting the program.