Joel Osteen - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 12-13-2006, 01:58 PM

I watched part of Barbara Walter's interview of him last night.

I found it interesting how he would close his eyes and pray "God bless you with promotions, raises and bonuses."

It's the gospel of materialism. He believes that God wants his followers to be rich.

Why not? God has made him rich. His church takes in $75 million a year.

Walters asked him why he doesnt' talk about gays or abortion. "I just don't think that is what I do best. I stick to the message God has given me." (to paraphrase).

It's a feel-good gospel that is very appealing to people these days.

I know some of you here are fans of him. I think he suffers greatly in comparison to his father, in terms of oration. His father was one of those old-time spellbinding southern preachers. There was a rhythm and crescendo to his sermons that was mesmerizing.

Anyway, I am not terribly impressed with Joel. Nor his gospel. Though I'm sure it does some good for some people.

DrumNFeather · 12-13-2006, 02:07 PM

I saw that interview as well and thought it to be very interesting...I immediately thought of Steve Martin's Character in Leap of Faith when he was talking about riches and promotions etc...

jay santos · 12-13-2006, 02:38 PM

Several Christian preachers and authors appeal to me. Phillip Yancey and Max Lucado are my favorites right now. I've seen Osteen on TV, and I don't have anything against him, but he doesn't move me like some others do. Osteen comes across as a Stephen Covey type that is preaching how to build relationships and be happy and succeed. Which is fine and appeals to many, but not what I look for from a preacher.

Jeff Lebowski · 12-13-2006, 02:41 PM

Let's see: I can get rich and feel warm and fuzzy about everything? What's not to like?

UtahDan · 12-13-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I watched part of Barbara Walter's interview of him last night.

I found it interesting how he would close his eyes and pray "God bless you with promotions, raises and bonuses."

It's the gospel of materialism. He believes that God wants his followers to be rich.

Why not? God has made him rich. His church takes in $75 million a year.

Walters asked him why he doesnt' talk about gays or abortion. "I just don't think that is what I do best. I stick to the message God has given me." (to paraphrase).

It's a feel-good gospel that is very appealing to people these days.

I know some of you here are fans of him. I think he suffers greatly in comparison to his father, in terms of oration. His father was one of those old-time spellbinding southern preachers. There was a rhythm and crescendo to his sermons that was mesmerizing.

Anyway, I am not terribly impressed with Joel. Nor his gospel. Though I'm sure it does some good for some people.

I'm not sure you're being fair to him. I recall that in context that he stated that we should ask God for all good things and that money was part of that. We talk all the time about how we get material blessings from paying tithing with no apparent sense of shame or embarrassment about being materialistic. Many have said half jokingly that they pay tithing because they can't afford not to have the blessings. The $75M a year he brings in is a pitance compared to what a major church, including the LDS church, brings in during a year. I haven't heard any reports that he personally is accumulating real estate or stocks with it. As I understand it he is using it in the way that most churches do.

I agree that Olsteen does not take on the tough issues, but if you stop and think about it the really important issues are not gays rights or abortion, they are loving your neighbor, doing good, not being judgmental, learning to be happy and having good family and professional relationships. On these issues I would say that he is a least as effective as anything you and I are ever going to hear at church, and a lot of what we hear at conference.

I think that truth is where you find it and we have no monopoly on it. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

There is fault to be found with everyone, but I think Olsteen's message is overwhelmingly good both in content and effect. Just like I don't know why anyone would seek to tear the LDS church down, I can't think of any good reason to tear this guy down.

non sequitur · 12-13-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I'm not sure you're being fair to him. I recall that in context that he stated that we should ask God for all good things and that money was part of that. We talk all the time about how we get material blessings from paying tithing with no apparent sense of shame or embarrassment about being materialistic. Many have said half jokingly that they pay tithing because they can't afford not to have the blessings. The $75M a year he brings in is a pitance compared to what a major church, including the LDS church, brings in during a year. I haven't heard any reports that he personally is accumulating real estate or stocks with it. As I understand it he is using it in the way that most churches do.

I agree that Olsteen does not take on the tough issues, but if you stop and think about it the really important issues are not gays rights or abortion, they are loving your neighbor, doing good, not being judgmental, learning to be happy and having good family and professional relationships. On these issues I would say that he is a least as effective as anything you and I are ever going to hear at church, and a lot of what we hear at conference.

I think that truth is where you find it and we have no monopoly on it. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

There is fault to be found with everyone, but I think Olsteen's message is overwhelmingly good both in content and effect. Just like I don't know why anyone would seek to tear the LDS church down, I can't think of any good reason to tear this guy down.

I remember when avarice was considered a deadly sin -- along with pride, envy, luxury, and gluttony. When I look at religious people today, it seems those sins have been turned on their heads. Not to bag on mormons or to draw broad generalizations (but of course I will anyway), but as a whole they are some of the most materialistic people you could ever hope to meet. I've never heard Joel Osteen, but if Mike's portrayal of his message is accurate, I would say he typifies a lot of what is wrong with modern day religion.

Venkman · 12-14-2006, 03:33 AM

I like the guy. I find his mesages positive and uplifting. He doesn't come across as materialistic to me (not that that means he isn't), but as a warm, sincere guy. Most TV preachers annoy the hell out of me, but he isn't one of them.

On a related note, but has anyone seen Kirk Cameron and that Australian dude's show, Way of the Master? I don't subscribe to his theology entirely, but I kind of enjoy it. They do some pretty hard core street contacting and are pretty ballsy in talking to people. They are pretty old school hell-fire and damnation Christians, not this wimpy Jesus loves you crap that's so prevalent today.

il Padrino Ute · 12-14-2006, 03:39 AM

I can't say that I've heard of him.

danimal · 12-14-2006, 04:36 AM

I've watched some of his sermons and have two gripes with him. First is that its more motivational than doctrinal -- pop religion. Sure we all need some motivation, but I can only sit around feeling good about myself for so long before I'd like a little meat to chew on. Second is his mullet. No, I take that back -- that's the best thing about him.

ute4ever · 12-14-2006, 06:03 AM

JO is my favorite non-mormon preacher. This summer I read his bestseller Your Best Life Now, and you are correct in his being a feel-good preacher. (I admit I also subscribe to his podcast).

IMO, when I listen to sermons of other faiths, sometimes there is a little doctrine that conflicts with mormonism, other times there is a lot. With JO, I don't see any conflicts, because he is constantly preaching happiness, living righteously and following Christ's example. He doesn't get into proper mode of baptism and such.

I'd be interesting in seeing a replay of the interview.

12-13-2006, 01:58 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Joel Osteen I watched part of Barbara Walter's interview of him last night. I found it interesting how he would close his eyes and pray "God bless you with promotions, raises and bonuses." It's the gospel of materialism. He believes that God wants his followers to be rich. Why not? God has made him rich. His church takes in $75 million a year. Walters asked him why he doesnt' talk about gays or abortion. "I just don't think that is what I do best. I stick to the message God has given me." (to paraphrase). It's a feel-good gospel that is very appealing to people these days. I know some of you here are fans of him. I think he suffers greatly in comparison to his father, in terms of oration. His father was one of those old-time spellbinding southern preachers. There was a rhythm and crescendo to his sermons that was mesmerizing. Anyway, I am not terribly impressed with Joel. Nor his gospel. Though I'm sure it does some good for some people.

12-13-2006, 02:07 PM	#2
DrumNFeather Active LDS Ute Fan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nantucket : ) Posts: 2,566	I saw that interview as well and thought it to be very interesting...I immediately thought of Steve Martin's Character in Leap of Faith when he was talking about riches and promotions etc... __________________ "It's not like we played the school of the blind out there." - Brian Johnson.

12-13-2006, 02:38 PM	#3
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Several Christian preachers and authors appeal to me. Phillip Yancey and Max Lucado are my favorites right now. I've seen Osteen on TV, and I don't have anything against him, but he doesn't move me like some others do. Osteen comes across as a Stephen Covey type that is preaching how to build relationships and be happy and succeed. Which is fine and appeals to many, but not what I look for from a preacher. Last edited by jay santos; 12-13-2006 at 02:40 PM.

12-13-2006, 02:41 PM	#4
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Let's see: I can get rich and feel warm and fuzzy about everything? What's not to like? __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

12-14-2006, 03:39 AM	#8
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	I can't say that I've heard of him. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

12-14-2006, 03:33 AM	#7
Venkman Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South Jordan, UT Posts: 1,799	I like the guy. I find his mesages positive and uplifting. He doesn't come across as materialistic to me (not that that means he isn't), but as a warm, sincere guy. Most TV preachers annoy the hell out of me, but he isn't one of them. On a related note, but has anyone seen Kirk Cameron and that Australian dude's show, Way of the Master? I don't subscribe to his theology entirely, but I kind of enjoy it. They do some pretty hard core street contacting and are pretty ballsy in talking to people. They are pretty old school hell-fire and damnation Christians, not this wimpy Jesus loves you crap that's so prevalent today.

12-14-2006, 04:36 AM	#9
danimal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Your mom's house Posts: 588	I've watched some of his sermons and have two gripes with him. First is that its more motivational than doctrinal -- pop religion. Sure we all need some motivation, but I can only sit around feeling good about myself for so long before I'd like a little meat to chew on. Second is his mullet. No, I take that back -- that's the best thing about him. __________________ Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...but it might work for us.

12-14-2006, 06:03 AM	#10
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	JO is my favorite non-mormon preacher. This summer I read his bestseller Your Best Life Now, and you are correct in his being a feel-good preacher. (I admit I also subscribe to his podcast). IMO, when I listen to sermons of other faiths, sometimes there is a little doctrine that conflicts with mormonism, other times there is a lot. With JO, I don't see any conflicts, because he is constantly preaching happiness, living righteously and following Christ's example. He doesn't get into proper mode of baptism and such. I'd be interesting in seeing a replay of the interview.