To be a true classicist, which languages does one need to master?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by tooblue

And what of the languages and cultures of the east?

Do you mean Sanskrit, Hindi, or Chinese, Mongolian and Japanese?

Sanskrit and some of the Indian tongues have some more ancient requirements. I haven't explored the relationship between Farsi and ancient Persian. Have you?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Solon

Greek and Latin are the so-called "classical languages," but a revolt is brewing against this limitation. The discipline of "classics" is dying - and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Most of the fiefs typically claimed by Classics can be farmed out to comparative literature, linguistics, history, archaeology, and art history departments. I'm a fan of the inter-disciplinary approach, as long as communication stays open. A lot of "classics" needs to leave the 19th century. For instance, I investigated U of Maryland as a grad school, but the Classics people refuse to talk to the History people. Different disciplines, so they said. Seems ridiculous to me. So, instead of "classics," I hope we can someday refer to Ancient Studies or some other moniker. It's not just semantics.

So, to get back to the question, Greek and Latin are the most common, but people in my department study ancient Egyptian (hieroglyphs, demotic, coptic, etc.), Akkadian, Biblical Hebrew, and Aramaic. Some of the Mid-east scholars never touch Greek. They aren't considered "classicists" in the strictest sense of the term, but I believe that is the future of studying the ancient world. The Greeks didn't live in a vacuum. [That said, I'm perfectly content with knowing just Greek and Latin. There's plenty of research for me in these areas.]

Latin is actually pretty easy to pick up, especially if you're just going for reading. Of course, you can always find difficult texts to read if that's your aim.

Don't ever let my students know this, but I wouldn't worry too much about Greek accents unless you want to get good at Greek composition. All you really need to do is be able to read them. Occasionally, an accent will help you distinguish between ambiguous forms, but not all that often. I would advise leaving the accents for when you're really comfortable and just dive into the texts.

I think that your point about comparative literature is a great one. I'm no Classicist but what makes the subject come alive to me is to see its mark everywhere in the modern world. Literature is the prime and maybe most easily understood example, and literature lies at the foundation of every civilization.

It struck me once while reading the great passage in Anna Karenina where Anna sees Vronsky for the last time (in the next scene she is off to the train station that last time), and gives him that memorable tongue lashing, that here was Dido raging at Aeneas just before her suicide and self-immolation in the Aeneid. It seems clear at least to me that Dido's confrontation with Aeneas was Tolstoy's primary inspiration in that most famous scene from what many have called the greatest novel ever. (When you think about it there were not a lot of worthy inspirations available to him at the time he wrote Anna Karanina.)

Of course, many note that our whole world outlook at present is essentially Classical. Here is a famous essay by Matthew Arnold that makes the point about Hellenism's final triumph in Western culture (I have linked here before): http://www.authorama.com/culture-and-anarchy-6.html

With this perspective, that Classical threads and influences are everywhere around us, German, Spanish, Russian, certainly English, Hebrew, Arabic, what have you, seem to me most helpful as well to fully understanding Classical civilization and its enduring power for what we consider the good.

I suspect what Solon means when he says the study of Classics is dying is that Classics per se as a field of study is dying. And this is so precisely because you could say separating out the Classics for studying in a vacuum is artificial. Our whole Western world is Classical and has been--in varying degrees, to be sure--since Greece transformed itself into the Roman Republic/Empire.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Do you mean Sanskrit, Hindi, or Chinese, Mongolian and Japanese?

Sanskrit and some of the Indian tongues have some more ancient requirements. I haven't explored the relationship between Farsi and ancient Persian. Have you?

Certainly not, just curious why Japanese and Chinese ect. are not considered when speaking of classicists languages?

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I think that your point about comparative literature is a great one. I'm no Classicist but what makes the subject come alive to me is to see its mark everywhere in the modern world.

Everywhere in the modern [western] world I think you meant to say.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Certainly not, just curious why Japanese and Chinese ect. are not considered when speaking of classicists languages?

"Classical" generally by definition refers to that comprehensive world outlook and system of values that took root in Athens and sprang up and flourished for a time throughout much of the Greek Isles after the Persian menace was turned back, and later became the pervasive ideology, value system and touchstone in the Roman Empire. Thanks to Alexander this culture was spread and became embedded into what we now know as the Middle East, thereby preparing the soil for Christianity and its Greek New Testament, created by Hellenized Jews.

So in answer to an earlier question, Alexander's dyansty still lives, and you belong to it.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

"Classical" generally by definition refers to that comprehensive world outlook and system of values that took root in Athens and sprang up and flourished for a time throughout much of the Greek Isles after the Persian menace was turned back, and later became the pervasive ideology, value system and touchstone in the Roman Empire. Thanks to Alexander this culture was spread and became embedded into what we now know as the Middle East, thereby preparing the soil for Christianity and its Greek New Testament, created by Hellenized Jews.

So in answer to an earlier question, Alexander's dyansty still lives, and you belong to it.

Understood, I'm aware, but that doesn't answer my question.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Certainly not, just curious why Japanese and Chinese ect. are not considered when speaking of classicists languages?

Classicists tend to think of the western world and western civilization, focusing upon Greco-Roman aspects even though some might look to Hebraic influences. They tend to ignore Persian influence, Indian influences and the Mongolian, Chinese and Japanese influences upon culture, except in a passing way.

Unfortunately, nobody has the time, perhaps intelligence, and maybe not inclination to examine these cultures to determine intersections. Were I independently wealthy I would gladly study Chinese culture, link it to Arabic, Hindi and Sanskrit, tied in with Egyptian, and Greco-Roman culture. That study would probably leave me as I am now, woefully deficient in any particular culture.

Yesterday, as an aside, I had the joy of working for several hours in German with a German inventor, who had several US concerns set up to distribute his product, of new turbine internationally. Surprisingly, my comprehension was good even if my recollection of technical language was not. It looks as if I will be making trips to Germany now on a regular basis. Darn it. The world is truly a small place, when an ordinary practitioner can have business concerns in Germany, Italy, Mexico and China. It does add some spice.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Everywhere in the modern [western] world I think you meant to say.

Yes I was specifically referring to us here. But still I think it's a pillar of Japanese culture now, and expanding in China and India. China and India are ascendant because of Classical/Western values being incorporated.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by tooblue

curious why Japanese and Chinese ect. are not considered when speaking of classicists languages?

TB, it just comes down to the difference between the study of ancient history, in which, certainly knowledge of Mandarin et al. would be relevant; and he study of Classics, in which there is a specific subset of ancient history involved. It's just a different discipline.

There may be a very few Classics scholars that (due to their research emphasis) need to reference primary texts in ancient Eastern languages, but certainly not many.

Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: clas·si·cal
Pronunciation: 'kla-si-k&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin classicus
1 : STANDARD, CLASSIC
2 a : of or relating to the ancient Greek and Roman world and especially to its literature, art, architecture, or ideals <classical civilization> b : versed in the classics <a classical scholar>

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Unfortunately, nobody has the time, perhaps intelligence, and maybe not inclination to examine these cultures to determine intersections. Were I independently wealthy I would gladly study Chinese culture, link it to Arabic, Hindi and Sanskrit, tied in with Egyptian, and Greco-Roman culture. That study would probably leave me as I am now, woefully deficient in any particular culture.

The famous book that tries to do this is "The Rise of the West" by William H. McNeil.