MMM and its lessons

[MikeWaters]

The title is actually kind of a lie.

That is, there have been no lessons from the Mountain Meadows Massacre for the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If pressed, a few people might be able to come up with one conclusion--don't do things that embarrass the church 100 years later.

It's frickin 2008, folks, and I am telling you there is a lesson or two in the MMM.

Who is trying to prevent members from gaining wisdom from the study of MMM? God or the Devil?

....

One thing about the world, is that events repeat themselves. The same lesson is repeated years later when Juanita Brooks is threatened by an apostle with excommunication if she reveals that John D. Lee has had his membership restored.

The only difference being that Juanita Brooks did what was right, and the murderers involved in the MMM did not.

How ironic however, that a representative conflict emerged from MMM.

.....

I don't think it would be wrong to say that there are two kinds of people in the world: 1) Juanita Brooks, 2) the people that fought her. If you don't agree with me, well, I know what kind of person you are, in this paradigm.

.....

Some wise person here like PAC or Archaea is going to say, "it's much more complicated than that."

No, it is not. It is not more complicated than that.

[The_Tick]

You are so full of yourself it is hilarious.

So....

Mr. Big shot do me a favor and finish this for me...

If you are LDS and oppose gay marraige you are...

If you are LDS and support gay marraige you are...

Because either way you end that you are full of shit.

I am not closed minded and oppressive if I oppose people of the same sex marrying. I am entitled to my opinion. As are you. But to tell me and other people that think the same way I do that we are wrong and that is the end of it is horse shit.


This I do know...

MMM was carried out by people and not the church presidency. Was it unfortunate? You bet it was. Could it have been stopped? Who knows. People have their breaking point.

Did orders come from the CoB? No.

You act as if you are some great whistle blower. You aren't.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by The_Tick

You are so full of yourself it is hilarious.

So....

Mr. Big shot do me a favor and finish this for me...

If you are LDS and oppose gay marraige you are...

If you are LDS and support gay marraige you are...

Because either way you end that you are full of shit.

I am not closed minded and oppressive if I oppose people of the same sex marrying. I am entitled to my opinion. As are you. But to tell me and other people that think the same way I do that we are wrong and that is the end of it is horse shit.


This I do know...

MMM was carried out by people and not the church presidency. Was it unfortunate? You bet it was. Could it have been stopped? Who knows. People have their breaking point.

Did orders come from the CoB? No.

You act as if you are some great whistle blower. You aren't.

Funny. You act as if the LDS supporters of Prop 8 are the ones that are oppressed and ostracized by the big bad anti-Prop 8 LDS bullies.

If you actually believe this, then perhaps I really am a big shot indeed. In your mind.

By the way, you didn't understand the lesson. It's not what you are suggesting.

[The_Tick]

So enlighten me.

I don't feel oppressed at all. I actually feel pretty inspired lately. Had 2 real good visits with the spirit today infact.

I know I only have a degree from a junior college, and you have gone to medical school. So help a heathen out.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by The_Tick

So enlighten me.

I don't feel oppressed at all. I actually feel pretty inspired lately. Had 2 real good visits with the spirit today infact.

I know I only have a degree from a junior college, and you have gone to medical school. So help a heathen out.

To be honest, if I articulated an answer, it wouldn't help you or mean anything to you.

I suggest you live your life the best you can, as morally as you can, and then one day, maybe sooner than later, this will come to your mind and you will say, "I know the meaning and message of it."

And that will be your enlightenment.

Nobody can do it for you, least of all me. Just like no one can do it for me, but me.

Good luck.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Nobody can do it for you, least of all me. Just like no one can do it for me, but me.

Then why not allow others to do it for themselves without belittling their opinions?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Then why not allow others to do it for themselves without belittling their opinions?

I think I am obligated to step in on murderers. So let's not say that all choices are equal.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think I am obligated to step in on murderers. So let's not say that all choices are equal.

I'm not aware of anyone who has defended what happened at Mountain Meadows. I certainly don't.

Still, your opinion is of no more value or is more correct than any others. I just fail to understand why you seem to ignore or not recognize that.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think I am obligated to step in on murderers. So let's not say that all choices are equal.

Likewise, let's not say all choices are like murder.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

Likewise, let's not say all choices are like murder.

your dislike of me clouds your mind to the point that the true answers out there elude you.

If I were to come as a prophet, it would not be as the majestic buck, or the proud lion, or anything apparent and fitting. I would come as the skunk. If you can get past the spray I just landed on you, you'll find something quite interesting.