Another conversation with my favorite apostate

[MikeWaters]

We used to be in the same ward. He was in the Bishopric. I see him all the time because we play ball in the same group.

He mentioned that a member's son left the church two years ago. He was previously a bishop. Left because "he found out about some things."

He couches things like there is a insurrection essentially going on, that people are now becoming aware of the history of the church, and how it's all a fraud.

My reply was there's nothing new there. There's no new information. And he disputes this. And I say "No Man Knows My History" has been around a long time. It was new to you!

Having said that, I do get the sense (and I don't have any empiric data for this, just personal experience), that we have probably seen more apostates and disaffected members in the past 8 years than we have in the modern history of the church. I'd be very curious to see the data related to numbers of members who have requested that their names be removed.

[ChinoCoug]

I've committed to exercise patience and understanding to those who felt blindsided by Church history, and not blaming them for being intellectually lazy or simpled-minded.

[MikeWaters]

I agree with that.

I just don't want him to think that this stuff has not been in the public domain. He thinks essentially no one knows, and that the church keeps us from knowing, and that if any reasonable person heard about this stuff, they would leave the church pronto. That's his viewpoint.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I agree with that.

I just don't want him to think that this stuff has not been in the public domain. He thinks essentially no one knows, and that the church keeps us from knowing, and that if any reasonable person heard about this stuff, they would leave the church pronto. That's his viewpoint.

It has not been available in readily accessible sites from credible sources. It is one thing to come from No Man a few items which many did not read, because the work is unreadable, to read Rough Stone Rolling and other sources, more credible and readable.

And the bloom is off the rose. At the beginning of the 20th Century, Church leaders believed science would prove the literality of Church historical claims and that archeology would unearth the Nephites. Conversions were happening rapidly, South America boomed in the latter half of the 80s and 90s. Fast forward to now.

Science may not disprove claims but it certainly doesn't support historical claims. Membership is no longer growing by leaps and bounds, and in some areas, even such as Chile, where 30 stakes were consolidated, membership is at standstill at best. The movement has slowed and the Church is losing in some areas the teens and twenty somethings.

The Church won't disappear but the days are gone when we could dream of becoming a 70 million strong Church in the foreseeable future. Outreach is not successful and the Church's attack on gays has slowed its progression ever since.