This thread truly frightens me - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Tex · 10-23-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHair

Man has proven untrustworthy. If you want to rely on someone else to do your thinking, it is your prerogative. There is nothing in D & C 1 that requires us to obey leaders or think that leaders are equivalent to God.

Red herring. No one is asking you to let someone else do your thinking, or view your leaders as equivalent to God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

This is an example of what I'm talking about.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...y/chapter9.htm

Times have changed. We've been over this. Church government has evolved greatly over the many, many decades.

BlueHair · 10-23-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exUte

the prophet, you are walking on dangerous ground. Unless of course you don't believe the prophet is truly a prophet. What do you think?

I don't think you are walking on dangerous ground. You should be able to take the advice given and decide for yourself. I believe a prophet usually gives out good advice. Bishops, High Councilmen, etc. give out bad advice on a regular basis. This is not intended to be a knock on them. Most of them are good men put in a position they simply aren't qualified for. I think sometimes members turn to church leaders for things they should be seeking professional help for. This puts leaders in a position to offer incorrect or even harmful advice.

cougarobgon · 10-23-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=4154833

Unfortunately, with my posting privileges on CB having been wrested from me for a season, I couldn't participate in this thread.

But some of the opinions expressed by some of the CB faithful in this thread truly scare me. In the sense that I'm worried that some of these people may hold significant church leadership callings, or may teach our children, or may have children of their own who they may raise to think like them.

For a church that places such importance on Truth, some of its members seem to have such loathing for truths and facts.

Maybe there really is some brainwashing going on within the church.

Brainwashing? Yeah...I am scared and worried...quit your whining, express your opinion, let others express theirs...the truth will prevail in the end.

jay santos · 10-23-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Times have changed. We've been over this. Church government has evolved greatly over the many, many decades.

I understand times have changed and church government has evolved. It had too, obviously, going from a few thousand members in one city to millions world wide.

I think there's a lot there to analyze though, without dismissing it so easily.

BlueHair · 10-23-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Red herring. No one is asking you to let someone else do your thinking, or view your leaders as equivalent to God.

Times have changed. We've been over this. Church government has evolved greatly over the many, many decades.

I don't know how many time I have heard that if you follow a leader and the leader turns out to be wrong, you will be blessed for it. Think about what that means. This means man is greater than God. You went against God's will because you followed bad advice from a man. Now God is going to reward you for it? That doesn't seems right to me. I doubt God places church management positions above his commandments.

Tex · 10-23-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I understand times have changed and church government has evolved. It had too, obviously, going from a few thousand members in one city to millions world wide.

I think there's a lot there to analyze though, without dismissing it so easily.

I don't dismiss it. It may surprise you that I actually don't disagree that there some interesting discussion there. Things like this happened a lot in the fledgling church.

But I'm not sure there's a lot of application that it has for our iteration of the church today.

TripletDaddy · 10-23-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=4154833

Unfortunately, with my posting privileges on CB having been wrested from me for a season, I couldn't participate in this thread.

But some of the opinions expressed by some of the CB faithful in this thread truly scare me. In the sense that I'm worried that some of these people may hold significant church leadership callings, or may teach our children, or may have children of their own who they may raise to think like them.

For a church that places such importance on Truth, some of its members seem to have such loathing for truths and facts.

Maybe there really is some brainwashing going on within the church.

AingeEraCoug's response was telling.

The seemingly correct LDS and Christian response to such "propoganda" should be along the lines of "this is unfortunate, I respect his right to believe what he wants, hopefully we do not let this issue get in the way of our fellowship one to another...or even a simple "I disagree with this brother."

Instead, Ainge says, "He deserves to get in trouble."

Get in trouble? Are we in a police state? Is the concern in our congregations that the lost sheep get their just punishments or that they come back to the fold?

ERCougar · 10-23-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

I love the token "prophets are wrong, see: blacks and the priesthood" line. Nice one, mpfunk.

Do you folks ever come up with new material?

I'm not sure why anyone needs new material. There are two issues, racism and polygamy, where designated prophets of God have spoken out and been completely wrong. These are not small issues. They had significant impact on members' lives and families. There are a thousand smaller issues we could discuss, but if the point we're trying to make is that prophets are fallible (and sometimes in significant ways), I'm not sure why we need to.

TripletDaddy · 10-23-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

I'm not sure why anyone needs new material. There are two issues, racism and polygamy, where designated prophets of God have spoken out and been completely wrong. These are not small issues. They had significant impact on members' lives and families. There are a thousand smaller issues we could discuss, but if the point we're trying to make is that prophets are fallible (and sometimes in significant ways), I'm not sure why we need to.

Tex's request is somewhat ironic.

Frankly, the LESS material on fallibilty of Church leaders, the better.

Jeff Lebowski · 10-23-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The seemingly correct LDS and Christian response to such "propoganda" should be along the lines of "this is unfortunate, I respect his right to believe what he wants, hopefully we do not let this issue get in the way of our fellowship one to another...or even a simple "I disagree with this brother."

Exactly.