the bishop's wife

[MikeWaters]

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/27/372911...m_content=2053

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/27/372911...m_content=2053

The author of the book and I went to the same high school. In fact, I seem to remember we were in the same German class once. She is a year or two younger than me. Her older brother was in my graduating class.

[MikeWaters]

it's interesting how she lost her faith related to the death of her infant/fetus. This happens to people all the time. She is an educated woman, she knows this as an intellectual fact. This did not cause her to lose her faith. But when tragedy struck her, she was hurt and offended, because surely if God loved her this would not have happened.

Some people have a tragedy occur, they increase in faith. Others lose faith. Others stay the same. But tragedies are still all around, going on all the time.

Today, someone's child will die.

Today, someone will lose their spouse to a drunk driver.

Today someone will be murdered.

And so forth. But good things are happening too. Is there a God alive in this world, with all the comings and goings? A debate that we must all wrestle with.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

it's interesting how she lost her faith related to the death of her infant/fetus. This happens to people all the time. She is an educated woman, she knows this as an intellectual fact. This did not cause her to lose her faith. But when tragedy struck her, she was hurt and offended, because surely if God loved her this would not have happened.

Some people have a tragedy occur, they increase in faith. Others lose faith. Others stay the same. But tragedies are still all around, going on all the time.

Today, someone's child will die.

Today, someone will lose their spouse to a drunk driver.

Today someone will be murdered.

And so forth. But good things are happening too. Is there a God alive in this world, with all the comings and goings? A debate that we must all wrestle with.

Yeah, I had a lot of the same thoughts when I read it. It makes you wonder what she thought before it happened to her when she noticed the tragedies others go through. Obviously going through something that hard can't be fully understood until you go through it, but I think anyone's faith is going to probably be tested by something hard at some point in their life because that's just the way life is.

I thought this quote from her was also interesting:

"I wanted to see if I could write about the kind of Mormon woman I wanted to be — who is both faithful but can ask questions," she says.

Can ask questions? I would propose that a faith that isn't questioned and examined isn't really fully understood and therefore probably isn't as strong as it can be. Traditionally a lot of LDS families are very authority based. It is what it is and you don't question it. I don't think in today's internet age that such an approach is going to be successful with as many people.

[MikeWaters]

I agree with you BlueK.

Those who are not on a firm foundation will fail. We are seeing it happen right before our eyes.

[BlueK]

I was still curious so I read some of the reviews of the book on Amazon. There are some glowing reviews from places like the NY Times, LA Times, and some other impressive publications. But the reviews from actual readers -- not so much. Some really liked it. But it seems for most the response is pretty lukewarm both as a mystery novel as well as in its overall style and treatment of LDS culture.

I think it's interesting that in the NPR article she expresses surprise that some think her portrayal of men in the book is quite negative and she mentions about 2 characters that are good. But some of the reviews addressed that and said that other than the couple of LDS men who are portrayed positively, all the rest are basically over the top, horrible people committing secret murders, abusing women and children, etc. This makes me think her "surprise" at the reaction she's gotten about how mormon men are portrayed is likely fake, but who knows for sure what she's thinking.

[MikeWaters]

Mormon leaders as a murderous cabal does not fit with my personal experience.

[MikeWaters]

Mormon leaders as a murderous cabal does not fit with my personal experience.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I agree with you BlueK.

Those who are not on a firm foundation will fail. We are seeing it happen right before our eyes.

Even those with firm foundation can have it cracked with an earthquake.

And it is quite one thing to believe in something intellectually, but another thing to have it tried and tested.

Imagine these circumstances:

You serve faithfully, you pray for confirmation that somebody you want to marry is a good person to marry. You seek "spiritual" confirmation and believe the burning in the bosom is true. Despite earnest efforts, nothing in the marriage works out, for decades. Eventually divorce ensues, and you blame yourself but not knowing why. You wonder why you received "confirmation" according to the Church teachings. Eventually, you conclude you are unable to discern spiritual truth or God just doesn't give a shit.

It is not a question of lack of foundation when the entire foundation is cracked by an earthquake striking the very foundation.

[MikeWaters]

So God confirms a decision and things don't go the way you expected, then God doesn't exist? Or doesn't care?

I understand that people can feel that way. But it doesn't seem like a really grow up way of dealing with things.

For example, my daughter might ask me if she thinks marrying so-and-so is a good idea, and I might say yes, and it didn't work out. Doesn't mean I didn't care or didn't have the best intentions, or even that it was the wrong decision.

I know a family in my old ward, their toddler son died in a tragic accident. They didn't lose their faith. Some people actually gain faith when something doesn't work out.

Again I understand people being "mad" at God. But if one's faith is dependent on everything working out as expected....life can be a harsh teacher. Because for 99.99% of us, it's not going to go that way.