BYU in the tourney and other thoughts - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 04-03-2008, 04:00 PM

We didn't come to play against A&M. Plaisted waited until the second half to show up. JT was off and on. Cummard was steady but failed to put the team on his shoulders. Jimmer tried to but just wasn't good enough yet.

The zone D was perplexing. We're not a zone D team and the rebounding out of it obviously killed us.

Anyway...

Here's how I see BYU's last five tourney games

vs Cincy it was like a #50 team playing a #20 team. We play like crap and get killed.

vs Syracuse. Like a #20 playing a #12 team. We play very well but Syracuse plays better.

vs UCONN. Like a #25 playing a #15. Again we play pretty tough but go against a better team.

vs Xavier. Like a #30 team playing a #30 team. Could have gone either way. We didn't get the breaks.

vs TA&M like a #40 team playing a #35 team. Neither team really brought their A game.

Bottom line in this is that I believe there is no magical element that we need that we dont' have to win a tourney game. We just need to play well. When you're a #30 team, you can play like a #20 team or a #40 team depending on how you come out that day.

Our problem has mostly been that we've played well in years we were underseeded/and or our opponent played above their heads. We've played below our potential the last couple years when we've had an opponent that was beatable.

One thing that I think could help us with our tournament preparation is a tougher schedule.

Indy Coug · 04-03-2008, 04:14 PM

What would be nice is to sandwich a quality OOC in the middle of the MWC schedule (kind of like what UNLV has done frequently in the past) to give us a little gauge of where we stand prior to the NCAA tournament.

BYU71 · 04-03-2008, 04:34 PM

I think we are who we are. I don't know if a tougher schedule would help.

I don't think it would make the players any faster or quicker. If we shoot well from the outside, we are in games with really good teams, otherwise forget it.

If for instance JT isn't on, what is he really going to do for you out on the floor. Defense, he shows some good signs, but not against quick teams. Will playing good teams make him better than that.

We were a slow team this year. I thought the team did great. I was shocked at the number of people picking them to win the conf. I was surprised when they beat Louisville and played NC and MSU tough. I wasn't shocked when BSU and Wake beat us.

I think this team overachieved or the conference underachieved. Either way I have to congratulate them, but unless we get quicker at the PG position or one of the forward positions, I will again be shocked if we win a NCAA game next year.

jay santos · 04-03-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

I think we are who we are. I don't know if a tougher schedule would help.

I don't think it would make the players any faster or quicker. If we shoot well from the outside, we are in games with really good teams, otherwise forget it.

If for instance JT isn't on, what is he really going to do for you out on the floor. Defense, he shows some good signs, but not against quick teams. Will playing good teams make him better than that.

We were a slow team this year. I thought the team did great. I was shocked at the number of people picking them to win the conf. I was surprised when they beat Louisville and played NC and MSU tough. I wasn't shocked when BSU and Wake beat us.

I think this team overachieved or the conference underachieved. Either way I have to congratulate them, but unless we get quicker at the PG position or one of the forward positions, I will again be shocked if we win a NCAA game next year.

I'm convinced there is no magical formula, such as a quick PG or whatever. Every year 32 teams win at least one tourney game. I promise you there are teams in there without an outstanding pg. Davidson's was awful.

You just have to play better than your opponent. Our opponent played like about a #30 team. Of our 30 games this year, we probably played well enough to beat that kind of team 20 times. We just didn't bring that kind of game the time it counted. There was nothing systematically inferior to a typical NCAA tourney winning team in the 5-12 seed range.

Indy Coug · 04-03-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I promise you there are teams in there without an outstanding pg. Davidson's was awful.

Davidson's PG led the nation in assists.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/leader...easonYear=2008

Assist to turnover ratio of 2.82

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=22903

Spaz · 04-03-2008, 05:14 PM

I think teams consistently playing tough games & teams down the stretch gives those teams invaluable preparation for the NCAA tourney.

A&M lost a bunch of games to close out the year, but because they were so comfortable playing in the sort of high-pressure environment the last few minutes of that game were, they were able to execute so much better than BYU did. I really think that sort of thing goes a LONG way.

I still think it's interesting how nearly every team we've played during this losing streak was either coming off a deep tourney run in very recent history, or had a player who was tremendously hot that game. Or both.

jay santos · 04-03-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Davidson's PG led the nation in assists.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/leader...easonYear=2008

Assist to turnover ratio of 2.82

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=22903

Hmm...guy I saw was slow and couldn't shoot. Maybe he got all the assists passing to Curry?

I guess i'm wrong about him. At any rate, there are plenty of teams that win without the kind of pg that BYU fans covet.

BYU71 · 04-03-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Hmm...guy I saw was slow and couldn't shoot. Maybe he got all the assists passing to Curry?

I guess i'm wrong about him. At any rate, there are plenty of teams that win without the kind of pg that BYU fans covet.

Really. What team got past the first round with the type of point guard we have and the type of power forward we have. I don't follow it closely, so I am asking the question sincerely.

I do think we should be able to win a first round game though, as you would think we would win 1 out of several toss up games we have played.

MikeWaters · 04-03-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm convinced there is no magical formula, such as a quick PG or whatever. Every year 32 teams win at least one tourney game. I promise you there are teams in there without an outstanding pg. Davidson's was awful.

You just have to play better than your opponent. Our opponent played like about a #30 team. Of our 30 games this year, we probably played well enough to beat that kind of team 20 times. We just didn't bring that kind of game the time it counted. There was nothing systematically inferior to a typical NCAA tourney winning team in the 5-12 seed range.

As I soon as I read this, I knew I could discount every single one of your basketball opinions. Stick to the stats, my friend.

04-03-2008, 05:14 PM	#6
Spaz Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,371	I think teams consistently playing tough games & teams down the stretch gives those teams invaluable preparation for the NCAA tourney. A&M lost a bunch of games to close out the year, but because they were so comfortable playing in the sort of high-pressure environment the last few minutes of that game were, they were able to execute so much better than BYU did. I really think that sort of thing goes a LONG way. I still think it's interesting how nearly every team we've played during this losing streak was either coming off a deep tourney run in very recent history, or had a player who was tremendously hot that game. Or both. __________________ "My days of not respecting you are certainly coming to a middle." -Malcolm Reynolds "It doesn't mean that if we lose a game or when we lose a game people won't then jump on and say the quest is over. Because they will. But they've missed the point." -Bronco Mendenhall on "The Quest"

04-03-2008, 04:00 PM	#1
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	BYU in the tourney and other thoughts We didn't come to play against A&M. Plaisted waited until the second half to show up. JT was off and on. Cummard was steady but failed to put the team on his shoulders. Jimmer tried to but just wasn't good enough yet. The zone D was perplexing. We're not a zone D team and the rebounding out of it obviously killed us. Anyway... Here's how I see BYU's last five tourney games vs Cincy it was like a #50 team playing a #20 team. We play like crap and get killed. vs Syracuse. Like a #20 playing a #12 team. We play very well but Syracuse plays better. vs UCONN. Like a #25 playing a #15. Again we play pretty tough but go against a better team. vs Xavier. Like a #30 team playing a #30 team. Could have gone either way. We didn't get the breaks. vs TA&M like a #40 team playing a #35 team. Neither team really brought their A game. Bottom line in this is that I believe there is no magical element that we need that we dont' have to win a tourney game. We just need to play well. When you're a #30 team, you can play like a #20 team or a #40 team depending on how you come out that day. Our problem has mostly been that we've played well in years we were underseeded/and or our opponent played above their heads. We've played below our potential the last couple years when we've had an opponent that was beatable. One thing that I think could help us with our tournament preparation is a tougher schedule.

04-03-2008, 04:14 PM	#2
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	What would be nice is to sandwich a quality OOC in the middle of the MWC schedule (kind of like what UNLV has done frequently in the past) to give us a little gauge of where we stand prior to the NCAA tournament.

04-03-2008, 04:34 PM	#3
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	I think we are who we are. I don't know if a tougher schedule would help. I don't think it would make the players any faster or quicker. If we shoot well from the outside, we are in games with really good teams, otherwise forget it. If for instance JT isn't on, what is he really going to do for you out on the floor. Defense, he shows some good signs, but not against quick teams. Will playing good teams make him better than that. We were a slow team this year. I thought the team did great. I was shocked at the number of people picking them to win the conf. I was surprised when they beat Louisville and played NC and MSU tough. I wasn't shocked when BSU and Wake beat us. I think this team overachieved or the conference underachieved. Either way I have to congratulate them, but unless we get quicker at the PG position or one of the forward positions, I will again be shocked if we win a NCAA game next year.