Ancient Old World Writings Support Mormon Doctrine

[Indy Coug]

http://mormontimes.com/DB_index.php?id=988

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

http://mormontimes.com/DB_index.php?id=988

I have a problem with these sorts of fireside talks, because they are too general, don't quote or cite specific works and generally are too sloppy. If what he says is accurate, then he should be able to cite the exact works which support his thesis.

Perhaps he is accurate, but the apocryphal, "I could believe stories..." are plentiful, but usually unsubstantiated. Yet these stories are the stuff of firesides.

I want meat, not cotton candy.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I have a problem with these sorts of fireside talks, because they are too general, don't quote or cite specific works and generally are too sloppy. If what he says is accurate, then he should be able to cite the exact works which support his thesis.

Perhaps he is accurate, but the apocryphal, "I could believe stories..." are plentiful, but usually unsubstantiated. Yet these stories are the stuff of firesides.

I want meat, not cotton candy.

Certainly that article was too superficial to indicate what concrete evidences the researcher had.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Certainly that article was too superficial to indicate what concrete evidences the researcher had.

these fireside talks aren't usually that much more substantial than this article. However, it is an interesting topic. I'm intrigued by some stuff I've read. Origen of Alexandria, for example, who was very prominent in the church in his day had lots of ideas that seem similar to some LDS beliefs. Later the church banned his writings because his ideas about the nature of God were not compatible with what became the orthodox trinitarian view.

[MikeWaters]

If you read The American Religion by Bloom, he makes frequent mention that Mormonism, as taught by Joseph Smith (not so true today in modern Mormonism), is a reinvention of Jewish and Christian Gnosticism.

It's not that JS had access to these ideas or works, but rather it was his "religious genius" that allowed him to recreate/reveal them.

I'm not sure that Bloom argues that similarities would be proof of God's revelation. But it's interesting nonetheless.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If you read The American Religion by Bloom, he makes frequent mention that Mormonism, as taught by Joseph Smith (not so true today in modern Mormonism), is a reinvention of Jewish and Christian Gnosticism.

It's not that JS had access to these ideas or works, but rather it was his "religious genius" that allowed him to recreate/reveal them.

I'm not sure that Bloom argues that similarities would be proof of God's revelation. But it's interesting nonetheless.

However, Bloom and others like to quote that, but which doctrines does he exactly point to as "gnostic". Having looked at gnosticism a bit, other than the claim to hidden knowledge, I don't see the resemblance, but perhaps I'm missing an aspect of gnosticism with which Bloom is familiar and I am not.

People speak so often in generalities, without linking the specifics.

[MikeWaters]

Read the book. I've read it twice. But I can't remember every aspect of it.

Also, reading this book would give you ammo against the Baptists on Texags. In the sense of asking them why they have abandoned their original roots.

He talks a lot about the Baptists.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If you read The American Religion
I'm not sure that Bloom argues that similarities would be proof of God's revelation. But it's interesting nonetheless.

Bloom has never suggested any such thing. He doesn't believe in angels and such nor that Jesus healed the sick, rose from the dead, etc. If you gave him truth serum I bet he'd be embarrassed for Joseph over the Book of Abraham. He's hardly ever mentioned the Book of Mormon except in the superficial sop he gave to his buddy Givens for his dust jacket. I guarantee he doesn't believe that Egyptians or Hebrews performed Masonic-like rituals in their temples. He doesn't believe that metal plates or ancient records hadn't been discovered in Joseph Smith's day and that this fact was not well known in Joseph Smith's area. He never said he believes ancient Hebrews came to America. He's been virtually unintelligible about what he means in ascribing a Gnostic genius to Joseph Smith. As we've discussed, it's not clear he means anything Joseph generated outside the King Follett discourse.

The fireside speaker quoted in the article is the modern equivalent of snake oil salesment and the risk of exposure to such charlatans is a big reason why I'd like my children not to be involved with Mormonism. This thread is not a credit to this forum and Indy knows it. He's trolling.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Bloom has never suggested any such thing. He doesn't believe in angels and such nor that Jesus healed the sick, rose from the dead, etc. If you gave him truth serum I bet he'd be embarrassed for Joseph over the Book of Abraham. He's hardly ever mentioned the Book of Mormon except in the superficial sop he gave to his buddy Givens for his dust jacket. I guarantee he doesn't believe that Egyptians or Hebrews performed Masonic-like rituals in their temples. He doesn't believe that metal plates or ancient records hadn't been discovered in Joseph Smith's day and that this fact was not well known in Joseph Smith's area. He never said he believes ancient Hebrews came to America. He's been virtually unintelligible about what he means in ascribing a Gnostic genius to Joseph Smith. As we've discussed, it's not clear he means anything Joseph generated outside the King Follett discourse.

The fireside speaker quoted in the article is the modern equivalent of snake oil salesment and the risk of exposure to such charlatans is a big reason why I'd like my children not to be involved with Mormonism. This thread is not a credit to this forum and Indy knows it. He's trolling.

Whether or not the article itself was useful, a couple of people have made some interesting points as a result of bringing up the topic. You are not one of those couple of people.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Bloom has never suggested any such thing. He doesn't believe in angels and such nor that Jesus healed the sick, rose from the dead, etc. If you gave him truth serum I bet he'd be embarrassed for Joseph over the Book of Abraham. He's hardly ever mentioned the Book of Mormon except in the superficial sop he gave to his buddy Givens for his dust jacket. I guarantee he doesn't believe that Egyptians or Hebrews performed Masonic-like rituals in their temples. He doesn't believe that metal plates or ancient records hadn't been discovered in Joseph Smith's day and that this fact was not well known in Joseph Smith's area. He never said he believes ancient Hebrews came to America. He's been virtually unintelligible about what he means in ascribing a Gnostic genius to Joseph Smith. As we've discussed, it's not clear he means anything Joseph generated outside the King Follett discourse.

The fireside speaker quoted in the article is the modern equivalent of snake oil salesment and the risk of exposure to such charlatans is a big reason why I'd like my children not to be involved with Mormonism. This thread is not a credit to this forum and Indy knows it. He's trolling.

You are a retard.