Women's suffrage and Mormonism

[woot]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Are you serious, to quote you "a woman's ability or desire to get drunk are not based on physical staure," now this is classic, "other than that women are generally smaller and therefore get drunk more easily."

Reread what you said over and over again until you come to the conclusion that you just said women get drunk more easily because of their physical stature. (Of course we are talking in general terms here. I realize some women may be bigger in stature than you, but I assume most aren't.)

Are you not aware that body size is best predictor of blood alcohol increase per drink? I don't understand your point.

[DJRoss]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Women today excel at every level, perform toe to toe with men.

It all depends on the whole circumstances. What I oppose here is generalizations. I am not saying what women shoud do, contrary to Norcalcat or DJ Ross.

Blow smoke up someone elses butt. First of all, I never claimed that women should or should not do anything. I made a point that women are better mothers than men. Yes you can find women who should not have or raise children, but generally women are better than men. Try hard to disprove this and you will fail. Bring up stories, research showing child development and you can say "see see men can be just as good"

Well men cannot breast feed, at least the ones I hang around with , men cannot achieve that maternal bond that is tied to the fact that the child has known its mothers heartbeat, pulse and biological rhythm for nine months. There is so much more going on here than guiding and directing. The maternal bond is irreplaceable. For every fantastic Mr. Mom out there there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of women who are better. That is not toe to toe.

Secondly, women cannot compete with men on every level toe to toe. You are truly stupid to swallow such nonsense. Try rucking a 25 miler in the hills with full gear, while keeping your weapon ready, locked and loaded. None of the female platoons even came close to our pace. Even the last male fat lard soldier in the last platoon showed up almost 30 minutes ahead of the first female.

Hell, even during basic training you see females starting and ending their PT doing what? Oh yeah lady pushers since they lack the strength to lift their petite frames doing a regular push up. Take a look at a standard PT test and see what men have to do vs women to pass. Toe to toe my ass.

Try having a female fire"person" carry a 220lb man on her shoulders down three flights of steps within sufficient time limits as to pass her section. Now see her do it three or four times during a real incident when clearing an apartment bldg with hundreds of people trapped. The CPAT for men and women when recruiting firefighters are different. Why? Because if they were the same, women would rarely if ever hang. They are too arduous?

Sorry, but for every woman that can actually hang to some degree with men in situations like these, there are tens of thousands of men if not hundreds of thousands of men that could. That isn't exactly toe to toe.

Ever take a Womens Studies course? Part of their curriculum illustrates why womens values are superior to those of men. What kind of garbage is that? Think about it for a second.

[woot]

Originally Posted by DJRoss

Blow smoke up someone elses butt. First of all, I never claimed that women should or should not do anything. I made a point that women are better mothers than men. Yes you can find women who should not have or raise children, but generally women are better than men. Try hard to disprove this and you will fail. Bring up stories, research showing child development and you can say "see see men can be just as good"

Well men cannot breast feed, at least the ones I hang around with , men cannot achieve that maternal bond that is tied to the fact that the child has known its mothers heartbeat, pulse and biological rhythm for nine months. There is so much more going on here than guiding and directing. The maternal bond is irreplaceable. For every fantastic Mr. Mom out there there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of women who are better. That is not toe to toe.

Secondly, women cannot compete with men on every level toe to toe. You are truly stupid to swallow such nonsense. Try rucking a 25 miler in the hills with full gear, while keeping your weapon ready, locked and loaded. None of the female platoons even came close to our pace. Even the last male fat lard soldier in the last platoon showed up almost 30 minutes ahead of the first female.

Hell, even during basic training you see females starting and ending their PT doing what? Oh yeah lady pushers since they lack the strength to lift their petite frames doing a regular push up. Take a look at a standard PT test and see what men have to do vs women to pass. Toe to toe my ass.

Try having a female fire"person" carry a 220lb man on her shoulders down three flights of steps within sufficient time limits as to pass her section. Now see her do it three or four times during a real incident when clearing an apartment bldg with hundreds of people trapped. The CPAT for men and women when recruiting firefighters are different. Why? Because if they were the same, women would rarely if ever hang. They are too arduous?

Sorry, but for every woman that can actually hang to some degree with men in situations like these, there are tens of thousands of men if not hundreds of thousands of men that could. That isn't exactly toe to toe.

Ever take a Womens Studies course? Part of their curriculum illustrates why womens values are superior to those of men. What kind of garbage is that? Think about it for a second.

What a cop out. It's obvious that we're talking about intellectual pursuits here. Physical activities are irrelevant. It doesn't take big muscles to be an attorney or a dentist.

I especially liked your bold assertions that "Women make better mothers than men" and "Men don't have that maternal bond that women have." No shit, Sherlock.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by DJRoss

Blow smoke up someone elses butt. First of all, I never claimed that women should or should not do anything. I made a point that women are better mothers than men. Yes you can find women who should not have or raise children, but generally women are better than men. Try hard to disprove this and you will fail. Bring up stories, research showing child development and you can say "see see men can be just as good"

Well men cannot breast feed, at least the ones I hang around with , men cannot achieve that maternal bond that is tied to the fact that the child has known its mothers heartbeat, pulse and biological rhythm for nine months. There is so much more going on here than guiding and directing. The maternal bond is irreplaceable. For every fantastic Mr. Mom out there there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of women who are better. That is not toe to toe.

Secondly, women cannot compete with men on every level toe to toe. You are truly stupid to swallow such nonsense. Try rucking a 25 miler in the hills with full gear, while keeping your weapon ready, locked and loaded. None of the female platoons even came close to our pace. Even the last male fat lard soldier in the last platoon showed up almost 30 minutes ahead of the first female.

Hell, even during basic training you see females starting and ending their PT doing what? Oh yeah lady pushers since they lack the strength to lift their petite frames doing a regular push up. Take a look at a standard PT test and see what men have to do vs women to pass. Toe to toe my ass.

Try having a female fire"person" carry a 220lb man on her shoulders down three flights of steps within sufficient time limits as to pass her section. Now see her do it three or four times during a real incident when clearing an apartment bldg with hundreds of people trapped. The CPAT for men and women when recruiting firefighters are different. Why? Because if they were the same, women would rarely if ever hang. They are too arduous?

Sorry, but for every woman that can actually hang to some degree with men in situations like these, there are tens of thousands of men if not hundreds of thousands of men that could. That isn't exactly toe to toe.

Ever take a Womens Studies course? Part of their curriculum illustrates why womens values are superior to those of men. What kind of garbage is that? Think about it for a second.

Hoss, who carries hod better has nothing to do with whether women should stay at home sitting on their hands all day.

[DJRoss]

Originally Posted by woot

The point is that what you consider to be "traditional roles" are nothing of the sort. They are recent cultural constructions. Your position follows decently from your premise; it's your premise that needs questioning.

Adam and Eve thing? If you want to go beyond religious and go into archeology and anthropology regarding ancient societies. Show me how the maternal bond and the maternal role of nurturer (I did not say caretaker, babysitter, guidance counselor, peacemaker, etc) is a recent phenomenon.

[woot]

Originally Posted by DJRoss

Adam and Eve thing? If you want to go beyond religious and go into archeology and anthropology regarding ancient societies. Show me how the maternal bond and the maternal role of nurturer (I did not say caretaker, babysitter, guidance counselor, peacemaker, etc) is a recent phenomenon.

It's not a recent phenomenon. The idea that women should be the sole nurturers and that men should be the sole providers is the recent phenomenon.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by woot

It's not a recent phenomenon. The idea that women should be the sole nurturers and that men should be the sole providers is the recent phenomenon.

It's a nineteenth to mid-twentieth century phenomenon in certain parts of the United States. Hoss doesn't know current trends so don't expect him to get the arc of human history.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

It's a nineteenth to mid-twentieth century phenomenon in certain parts of the United States. Hoss doesn't know current trends so don't expect him to get the arc of human history.

I like to hear two libs chat and massage each other into thinking they represent mainstream America. I look forward to reading more of this later when I get back.

[woot]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

It's a nineteenth to mid-twentieth century phenomenon in certain parts of the United States. Hoss doesn't know current trends so don't expect him to get the arc of human history.

I also like how "Adam and Eve" and "Old Testament are his idea of early humans. If the agricultural revolution took place about twice as long ago as when God created the universe, I imagine it'd be difficult to maintain any kind of coherent opinion on relevant issues.

[woot]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I like to hear two libs chat and massage each other into thinking they represent mainstream America. I look forward to reading more of this later when I get back.

Intelligent discourse is anything but mainstream. I have no delusions that my opinions have ever even been considered by most people, let alone espoused.