Church does not favor illegal imm. crackdown

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Notice I didn't say that I support deporting all the illegals. I think we should work with the law abiding illegals to do something to help them gain legal status.

I'm just trying to get Cali to explain his comment that many Repubs don't want to be compassionate. He made the accusation so I'm calling him out and the best way to get a liberal like him to explain himself is to make a comment like I did.

Fair. No you did not say that. apologies.

I think that the answer to your question....the REAL answer.....can be found in the article. This is more an issue of latent racism than people being offended that someone didn't obey the law. As the NYC lawyer pointed out, if people are so up in arms about obeying the law, why don't we round up other similar non-violent offenders?

The overwhelming majority of economist agree that immigration helps our economy. While income taxes are NOT paid, sales taxes are paid. And these illegals cannot claim social security benefits when they are older.

US companies are already off-shoring more and more jobs because domestic labor is too expensive, so the argument that illegals take jobs doesn't ring very true. Americans are not applying for or wanting the jobs that most illegals do, anyway.

I think compassion would require any and all talk of any sort of sweeping deportation. Deportation is ridiculous. It doesn't work. Ideally, it is a great fix--let's find them and toss them out. Practically speaking, what a dumb idea. It makes as much sense as fighting "terror." Let's get over the fact they are here and figure out 2 main things: what to do with those that are already here and how to organize the continual future inflows of immigrants.

The person who lacks compassion is the one who is a dogmatist and cannot see the human aspect of the issue...in other words, "the law is the law....they broke they law....kick them out." That lacks compassion.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Illegal immigration is not about obeying the law. It is about figuring out what to do with those that are already here and obeying the law.

A common scenario in the illegal immigration debate: couple comes over the border illegally. They live in the US for years.....over a decade. In that time, both mother and father have 2 children in the states. The kids go to elementary school and are now in the junior high school. The kids are good kids and the parents just want the kids to go to college and get a good job. The parents do not pay income taxes, but nor will they be eligible for social security or welfare when they are older. They do pay sales tax. During their time here, they commit no crimes and basically are low key residents in their community. The kids are entrenched, have friends, speak English, and are normal junior high school kids.

IPU, so you are saying that in your BEST analysis, the most important issue, the most glaring problem here, is that 12 years ago, 2 people crossed the border illegally and so we must "obey the law" and kick them out? Uproot them, separate them from their kids, or force their kids, US citizens, to move to sub-standard living conditions? This is about obeying the law? Seriously?

That is a tough one. How about this one relayed to me by a cop in Ut. Cty. Kid comes here with his parents. Has gotten three girls pregnant, 14 year olds. His Dad has left and gone back. Kid and mother is still here. One girls parents said he can't see his kid. He threatens them. Cops can't do anything because he hasn't broken any laws.

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by Tex

Agreed. We should welcome all illegals into the country, especially the violent criminal types, as many Democrats urge. Compassion.

Yes, this is exactly the compassion that both Cali Coug and the First Presidency are asking for. Gimme a break.

The way I hear some people, in and out of the church, speak of "illegals" is shameful. The church is reminding us that they are people, some among our ranks. Sure there are thugs and criminals trying to get in, but many are like DDD described: folks just looking for a better life and a piece of the American Dream. It's easy to call them lawbreakers for coming in illegally when we are living in our plush homes with running water, full access to medical care, education and all the finer things in life. If we were living in the circumstances they were coming from, we might be tempted to "break the law" and enter illegally too.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BYU71

That is a tough one. How about this one relayed to me by a cop in Ut. Cty. Kid comes here with his parents. Has gotten three girls pregnant, 14 year olds. His Dad has left and gone back. Kid and mother is still here. One girls parents said he can't see his kid. He threatens them. Cops can't do anything because he hasn't broken any laws.

That is also a tough one.

The major implication is two-fold....the kid (a minor?) impregnated 3 girls and he also threatened a parent who was not allowing him to see his child.

I dont see how any of those issues relate to deportation. Why deport illegals because they get their girlfriends pregnant? Do we have any legal ramifications at all for a US citizen who is a minor and gets his girlfriend pregnant? And then threatens the father because he wont let the kid see his child?

My final verdict....the inner racist whispers to you that this kid should be deported.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Fair. No you did not say that. apologies.

I think that the answer to your question....the REAL answer.....can be found in the article. This is more an issue of latent racism than people being offended that someone didn't obey the law. As the NYC lawyer pointed out, if people are so up in arms about obeying the law, why don't we round up other similar non-violent offenders?

The overwhelming majority of economist agree that immigration helps our economy. While income taxes are NOT paid, sales taxes are paid. And these illegals cannot claim social security benefits when they are older.

US companies are already off-shoring more and more jobs because domestic labor is too expensive, so the argument that illegals take jobs doesn't ring very true. Americans are not applying for or wanting the jobs that most illegals do, anyway.

I think compassion would require any and all talk of any sort of sweeping deportation. Deportation is ridiculous. It doesn't work. Ideally, it is a great fix--let's find them and toss them out. Practically speaking, what a dumb idea. It makes as much sense as fighting "terror." Let's get over the fact they are here and figure out 2 main things: what to do with those that are already here and how to organize the continual future inflows of immigrants.

The person who lacks compassion is the one who is a dogmatist and cannot see the human aspect of the issue...in other words, "the law is the law....they broke they law....kick them out." That lacks compassion.

No worries.

I agree with what you've posted about those who don't pay income taxes and won't be able to receive social security benefits. These are just folks who want to better their lives.

One of the biggest problems that I see that is a result of illegal immigration is that there are billions of dollars going into Mexico as the illegals send money to their families and the corrupt Mexican government loves the extra money coming in, so it has no incentive to do anything about illegals crossing the border into the US. I don't have a solution to this other than putting the military at the border to discourage illegal crossings.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

Agreed. We should welcome all illegals into the country, especially the violent criminal types, as many Democrats urge. Compassion.

Tex, it is times like this when I am glad you are not real.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Tex, it is times like this when I am glad you are not real.

I dunno. That made me chuckle because it will undoubtedly get a better response from CaliCoug.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I dunno. That made me chuckle because it will undoubtedly get a better response from CaliCoug.

Just trying to match his penchant for distortion. I'm not as good at it as him, of course ...

[Tex]

Originally Posted by marsupial

Yes, this is exactly the compassion that both Cali Coug and the First Presidency are asking for. Gimme a break.

How come no one says "Gimme a break" when someone says Republicans are compassionless SOBs?

Oh that's right. 'Cause they are. Nevermind.

[SeattleUte]

Ladies and gentlemen, a startling, historical event has occurred. Tex has dissented from an official, public LDS position. I urge you to scan the archives here. This has never occurred. Tex has always cleaved perfectly to the iron rod of LDS orthodoxy and the party line. How telling that this breach has occured over the LDS Church calling for America to be be compassionate in its treatment of illegal aliens.