Could we get Pastor Wright a reality TV show

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

??? I am embarrassed that Wright and Hagee are turning into focal points for the election when neither of them reflect the character of the candidates involved.

The only time I hear about Hagee is when you bring it up. Few people outside the Dems care about this. But like I said before, this is a common tactic for Dems at election time, to highlight endorsements of Repub candidates by conservative ministers. Not news.

On the other hand, a candidate's minister of 20 years, the man that married the candidate and baptized the candidate's children, and then held a private prayer meeting with the candidate on the morning that the candidate announced; when that minister shreaks "God Damn America" and all manor of anti-american crap and then acts like a kook on national TV, that's news and goes to the judgement of the candidate.

Obama was either an opportunist or a fool; or perhaps a combination of the two. Or maybe he's just giving us politician speak like Wright has suggested.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

so in what way do you think Rev Wright will influence him?

Judgment? The business community has already lauded Obama's leadership abilities. You can get a lot done with charisma.

I doubt Rev Wright will influence Obama all that much any more as Obama runs from him as fast as he can.

Why did Obama maintain such a close spiritual relationship with a guy that has such antipathy for the U.S.? So much so that he uses such damning rhetoric and pushes outright lies. Did he feel energized by it all? Did it speak to him? If not, then why persist in this relationship?

Now that Wright is throwing Obama under the bus, why such a tepid response? Given Wright's kookiness (black and white brains are different?!?!?), why not strongly dissassociate himself with Wright?

Could the answer be political expediency?

Sometimes our decisions come back to haunt us.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

The only time I hear about Hagee is when you bring it up. Few people outside the Dems care about this. But like I said before, this is a common tactic for Dems at election time, to highlight endorsements of Repub candidates by conservative ministers. Not news.

On the other hand, a candidate's minister of 20 years, the man that married the candidate and baptized the candidate's children, and then held a private prayer meeting with the candidate on the morning that the candidate announced; when that minister shreaks "God Damn America" and all manor of anti-american crap and then acts like a kook on national TV, that's news and goes to the judgement of the candidate.

Obama was either an opportunist or a fool; or perhaps a combination of the two. Or maybe he's just giving us politician speak like Wright has suggested.

You are splitting hairs if you are going to make that argument. Are you aware of what Hagee has said? McCain certainly is (he has discussed the matter publicly already). McCain didn't disavow his endorsement, though. And he has continued to make appearances with Hagee. McCain is using Hagee for political support. Obama used Wright for religious support and disavowed his political support. If you are going to jump on Obama for a lack of judgement (your only contrived argument left with the Wright story since it is clear Obama doesn't share Wright's views), you will have to throw McCain under the bus too (which I know you won't do).

And, by the way, the fact that few people talk about this doesn't somehow mean it isn't right.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

And, by the way, the fact that few people talk about this doesn't somehow mean it isn't right.

No, it doesn't. But it does give you an idea of the relative interest in the public arena.

I have no doubt that if the press thought they could make hay of Hagee, they would. They are only McCain's friends when it comes to other Republicans.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You are splitting hairs if you are going to make that argument. Are you aware of what Hagee has said? McCain certainly is (he has discussed the matter publicly already). McCain didn't disavow his endorsement, though. And he has continued to make appearances with Hagee. McCain is using Hagee for political support. Obama used Wright for religious support and disavowed his political support. If you are going to jump on Obama for a lack of judgement (your only contrived argument left with the Wright story since it is clear Obama doesn't share Wright's views), you will have to throw McCain under the bus too (which I know you won't do).

And, by the way, the fact that few people talk about this doesn't somehow mean it isn't right.

Perhaps Dems have cried "wolf" one to many times.

When did Obama disavow Wright's political support?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Perhaps Dems have cried "wolf" one to many times.

When did Obama disavow Wright's political support?

Several times, the most recent being yesterday. I would imagine yet again today.

Need I point out that you are making two different arguments here? On the one hand, you question Obama's judgement for involvement with Wright. On the other hand, you inform me that people don't care about Hagee, therefore it isn't an issue.

You are arguing an absolute in the first instance with Obama- that he has poor judgement because of his involvement with Wright. You are arguing about political impact in the second instance with McCain, not even addressing your judgement issue.

If you were going to be consistent, and I don't expect you will be, you would be concerned about the judgement of both or of neither, and would separately argue for about the relative political impact each case could have on the respective candidates (which could differ).

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Several times, the most recent being yesterday. I would imagine yet again today.

Need I point out that you are making two different arguments here? On the one hand, you question Obama's judgement for involvement with Wright. On the other hand, you inform me that people don't care about Hagee, therefore it isn't an issue.

You are arguing an absolute in the first instance with Obama- that he has poor judgement because of his involvement with Wright. You are arguing about political impact in the second instance with McCain, not even addressing your judgement issue.

If you were going to be consistent, and I don't expect you will be, you would be concerned about the judgement of both or of neither, and would separately argue for about the relative political impact each case could have on the respective candidates (which could differ).

When did he first disavow Wright's political support?

I see no absolutes. I'll allow McCain his little daliance with Hagee. Politics allows for strange bedfellows working together for a common end.

McCain's involvement with Hagee pales in comparison to Obama's with Wright. Hagee's statements pale in comparison to Wright's blatherings.

I question Obama's invlovement with Wright over a 20 year period of time. I question Obama taking his kids to a church that spews forth such hate. I question Obama bringing Wright into his campaign.

What are your thoughts on Obama and Wright?

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I doubt Rev Wright will influence Obama all that much any more as Obama runs from him as fast as he can.

Why did Obama maintain such a close spiritual relationship with a guy that has such antipathy for the U.S.? So much so that he uses such damning rhetoric and pushes outright lies. Did he feel energized by it all? Did it speak to him? If not, then why persist in this relationship?

Now that Wright is throwing Obama under the bus, why such a tepid response? Given Wright's kookiness (black and white brains are different?!?!?), why not strongly dissassociate himself with Wright?

Could the answer be political expediency?

Sometimes our decisions come back to haunt us.

If it was all about political expediency Obama would have disowned the man who helped him find Jesus. He didn't. He only distanced himself from those words.

And I'm sure there's a lot of things you and I can learn from the teachings of our "spiritual adviser" Brigham Young in spite of the racially-charged things he said.

First of all, his church is a pre-dominantly white organization. Only Obama's congregation is majority black. And the mother organization has fully endorsed Wright's ministry.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

If it was all about political expediency Obama would have disowned the man who helped him find Jesus. He didn't. He only distanced himself from those words.

And I'm sure there's a lot of things you and I can learn from the teachings of our "spiritual adviser" Brigham Young in spite of the racially-charged things he said.

First of all, his church is a pre-dominantly white organization. Only Obama's congregation is majority black. And the mother organization has fully endorsed Wright's ministry.

Obama has another spiritual convert in Chino. How nice.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

When did he first disavow Wright's political support?

I see no absolutes. I'll allow McCain his little daliance with Hagee. Politics allows for strange bedfellows working together for a common end.

McCain's involvement with Hagee pales in comparison to Obama's with Wright. Hagee's statements pale in comparison to Wright's blatherings.

I question Obama's invlovement with Wright over a 20 year period of time. I question Obama taking his kids to a church that spews forth such hate. I question Obama bringing Wright into his campaign.

What are your thoughts on Obama and Wright?

I really enjoy hearing Mormons, of all groups, getting upset about comments from a spiritual leader that were offensive or that called into question the greatness of the nation. I suggest you read your own church's history before deciding the level of inappropriateness of Wright's statements.

As for Hagee's comments, I find them far more offensive than Wright's. I assume when you say they "pale in comparison," that means you don't actually know what Hagee has said. Should I post a list of his greatest hits?

You are now back to saying it is purely a judgement issue with Obama. I am having a hard time keeping up with your evolving arguments. Does McCain suffer from a lapse in judgement with Hagee/Falwell? If not, why? What is the difference? You want to make it out to be an issue of length of time, but that would seem to only indicate that Obama's judgement was poor for a long time (and now corrected) and that McCain's is poor for a short time (including now). Not sure that advances your case.