Miracles, proof of what?

[RockyBalboa]

It's okay to share faith demoting experiences and umpteen reasons why someone doesn't believe and bitch and moan endlessly about things they don't like,,,,but share your testimony or something that strengthened your faith, and it'll be sure to rouse the intellectual mullahs.

Truth be told faith promoting experiences causes them uncomfortable insecurity.

But share something pissy and negative and it tends to have a feeder frenzy like effect on here...one starts and many join in. That has long been the trend on here.

Cougarguard intellectual mullahs...they're the new women.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

It's okay to share faith demoting experiences and umpteen reasons why someone doesn't believe and bitch and moan endlessly about things they don't like,,,,but share your testimony or something that strengthened your faith, and it'll be sure to rouse the intellectual mullahs.

Truth be told faith promoting experiences causes them uncomfortable insecurity.

But share something pissy and negative and it tends to have a feeder frenzy like effect on here...one starts and many join in. That has long been the trend on here.

Cougarguard intellectual mullahs...they're the new women.

I like sincere even simply testimonies, offered for what they are meant to, be, one person's statement of convictions.

I don't like testimonies intended to squelch intellectual discussions because somebody is uncomfortable with the discussion. Perhaps I should be more sympathetic, but I am not.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

Not to lessen your experience but growing up I saw a drunk Indian (feathers not dots) running from the cops hit a concrete column going at least 50mph. He hit the column dead center sat stunned for a minute or so opened the door and walked out. He didn't have a scratch on him. I thought to myself that it was a miracle and that God must love drunks cause they always seem to walk away from the horrific accidents they cause.

Either way your experience doesn't mean the mormon church is true. It means that God anwsers prayers, mormon and non-mormon just the same.

I agree, I never said it was evidence that the church was true. It is just not easily explained. My response was to woot who claimed that "miracles" never happen when they can be verified. Was my experience a miracle? I don't know for sure but neither does woot. However, it was observed by several people with some capacity to judge its veracity and was faith promoting for some some.

[woot]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I once visited a pyschic on a lark. No one is more of a cynic or more of a skeptic than me, but the pyschic told me things he had no business knowing. I can't explain it, but I don't assume God was whispering things into his ear, nor do I think science could adequately explain why some people are more clairvoyant than others. Reading the threads on the board the last couple of days, one would think that science and religion are the only tools we have for gaining knowledge. Are those really our only two choices?

Actually, most of the best psychic/paranormal debunkers are actually magicians, since the tricks used by these frauds are usually beyond the knowledge of the average scientist. I went to a Penn and Teller show in Vegas where Penn figured out which line of a book somebody in the audience was looking at just through cold reading, and repeated it twice more with two other people. It's amazing what someone can do with enough practice just by reading your mannerisms. Darren Brown is incredible if you feel like looking him up youtube. He's probably my favorite. These guys are all at least as good as all of the professional psychics, it's just that these guys don't lie and pretend to have magical powers.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

I agree, I never said it was evidence that the church was true. It is just not easily explained. My response was to woot who claimed that "miracles" never happen when they can be verified. Was my experience a miracle? I don't know for sure but neither does woot. However, it was observed by several people with some capacity to judge its veracity and was faith promoting for some some.

I guess everybody missed my point. I DID think it was a miracle and I still do. You mentioned that your faith has wavered and your mother uses your miraculous experience to try and keep you in the fold. Thats why I said what I did about about the meaning.

Lets be serious here, the mothers of drunks pray for them more than most sons mothers. Soooo I guess I can see why they survive more often.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I like sincere even simply testimonies, offered for what they are meant to, be, one person's statement of convictions.

I don't like testimonies intended to squelch intellectual discussions because somebody is uncomfortable with the discussion. Perhaps I should be more sympathetic, but I am not.

Although intellectual testimonies designed to squelch faith are okay?

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

I guess everybody missed my point. I DID think it was a miracle and I still do. You mentioned that your faith has wavered and your mother uses your miraculous experience to try and keep you in the fold. Thats why I said what I did about about the meaning.

Lets be serious here, the mothers of drunks pray for them more than most sons mothers. Soooo I guess I can see why they survive more often.

Yeah I did miss your point. Guess I need to up the reading comprehension skill. Interesting take on it. You could be right.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Although intellectual testimonies designed to squelch faith are okay?

There is no such thing as an intellectual testimony to coin the phrase. The intellect and the intellectual method is a method of questioning and inquiring. So a "higher witness" of the intellect is an oxymoron. Perhaps God can enlighten our minds, but it's not the same thing. You know this or should know it.

The intellectual process simply helps one understand intellectual information and data which one has acquired. It organizes.

A "spiritual" witness is sensation or emotion based, and is by nature fuzzy, somewhat unbounded and disorganized.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Archaea

There is no such thing as an intellectual testimony to coin the phrase. The intellect and the intellectual method is a method of questioning and inquiring. So a "higher witness" of the intellect is an oxymoron. Perhaps God can enlighten our minds, but it's not the same thing. You know this or should know it.

The intellectual process simply helps one understand intellectual information and data which one has acquired. It organizes.

A "spiritual" witness is sensation or emotion based, and is by nature fuzzy, somewhat unbounded and disorganized.

So in other words, you're an oxymoron. Thanks for the clarification.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

So in other words, you're an oxymoron. Thanks for the clarification.

If that is what you divined from that, I have failed and should never become an instructor. You asked what was initially a legitimate question, but now have resorted to, "Everybody who disagrees with Rocky is an asshole and I will tell it to his face, even if he is the GA of my area." Thanks for ending on a low note.