Talk about grandstanding and overreaction

[creekster]

Originally Posted by hyrum

Is abusing a teenage girl not enough of a problem for you? Reportedly this is what brought this about .... someone spoke up about child abuse. If they would just produce the girl and her child maybe all this would not be necessary.

Are you serious? There is an allegation (remember, nothing proven yet) that an underage girl has been abused. So to serve and enforce a warrant to search for and obtain this girl and her child they enter the compound and remove one hundred and thirty seven children from their families. Now we may thinnk they are all nut jobs and we may disagree wildly with how they are raising these children, but lacking more evidecne than our severe disapproval I find it absolutely outrageous that these children were removed under these circumstances.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Guaranteed this is about a bunch of redneck baptist sheriff's down there. At least the over-reaction part. It sounds to me like they were looking for an excuse.

This photo shows the caravan hauling the kids off. Check out the labeling on the front of the vans:

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It really makes me shake my head when I see LDS rejoice at the persecution of the FLDS.

It's fine to be against underage marriage or forced marriage. But some of the hatred goes well beyond that.

Interesting article in the DNews:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695267615,00.html

Reminiscent of the infamous 1953 raid on Short Creek, where polygamists were rounded up and put in jail and their children put in foster care, people on both sides of the polygamy debate were worried about the impact of this latest action in Texas.

"It seems like a huge, massive step for law enforcement to come in like that and raid this community," said Mary Batchelor of the pro-polygamy group Principle Voices. "It's terrifying."

Ross Chatwin, another ex-FLDS member, feared the Texas raid would serve to further entrench and isolate the FLDS from the outside world.

"Warren (Jeffs) and the leaders, they're wanting something like this to happen so they can fullfil a prophecy that it will turn into another Nauvoo or '53 raid," he said. "My biggest fear is we're playing right into their hands."

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff also worried about how FLDS faithful would perceive the Texas raid. In an interview with the Deseret Morning News on Friday, Shurtleff said, "Heavens no!" he would not raid Hildale and Colorado City.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Civil liberties. I take it you are not a big proponent.

Yeah, I'm a real fascist.

I'm in favor of getting kids our of abusive situations - all too common in polygamous communities.

The cops should always observe due process, though.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Solon

Yeah, I'm a real fascist.

I'm in favor of getting kids our of abusive situations - all too common in polygamous communities.

The cops should always observe due process, though.

I'm not sure what you mean by "all too common."

The stories of abuse I have read about in the 19th century New York Times, committed by Mormons in the 19th century in Brigham Young's time are 100x worse than what I have read about FLDS.

And just like now, in response, they sent out an Army and predicted a huge battle. That the women and children would be killed by the Mormons.

Sadly, Mormons seem to be the last people to learn from history.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm not sure what you mean by "all too common."

The stories of abuse I have read about in the 19th century New York Times, committed by Mormons in the 19th century in Brigham Young's time are 100x worse than what I have read about FLDS.

And just like now, in response, they sent out an Army and predicted a huge battle. That the women and children would be killed by the Mormons.

Sadly, Mormons seem to be the last people to learn from history.

Teenage boys are routinely ostracized, and teenage girls are routinely (statuory) raped in FLDS and other polygamous communities. I have no problem with the government investigating, provided they follow protocols.

This has nothing to do with mormon / non-mormon.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Solon

Teenage boys are routinely ostracized, and teenage girls are routinely (statuory) raped in FLDS and other polygamous communities. I have no problem with the government investigating, provided they follow protocols.

This has nothing to do with mormon / non-mormon.

source?

[hyrum]

Originally Posted by creekster

Are you serious? There is an allegation (remember, nothing proven yet) that an underage girl has been abused. So to serve and enforce a warrant to search for and obtain this girl and her child they enter the compound and remove one hundred and thirty seven children from their families. Now we may thinnk they are all nut jobs and we may disagree wildly with how they are raising these children, but lacking more evidecne than our severe disapproval I find it absolutely outrageous that these children were removed under these circumstances.

Yes, I am serious. There is more than allegation. There is a girl who had a baby AT AGE 15. There is some other evidence, apparently, but the judge sealed the records for the warrant, so that is not being reported. How are they supposed to get evidence? All the FLDS have to do is co-operate.

We don't know why so many people were removed but there was some indication that many left on their own accord, mothers going with children, etc. I'll bet the vast majority are returned once the authorities locate the girl and get to the truth about what is happening to children inside there.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

source?

Thanks for not just writing "link?" As if all someone has to do is find it on the internet to make it so.

Check these out.

http://www.randomhouse.com/broadway/...=9780767927567

Read “The Primer”: http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/polygamy.html

http://childbrides.org/ - True Stories and Media Archives tabs.

Pretty decent story from npr:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4627871

It's not about polygamy (to me, at least). I don't care if adults want to engage in polygamous relationships. It's about stopping abuse.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by Frank Ryan

I've have heard of a person dying during a session, the paramedics came right through the door with a stretcher

I was at the Jordan River Temple in January when an older sister fell on the escalator and clipped the back of her head on one of those sharp escalator stairs. It split the back of her head open pretty bad. She couldn't get up and then her dress got caught in the stairs at the bottom kind of trapping her there and the escalator stairs kept whacking her in the back of the head worsening the cut. Another sister finally hit the emergency stop button and my uncle and I were able to free the sister and get her seated in a chair. The whole back of her head and dress was dripping blood. Anyway, as we were exiting the temple the fire department and paramedics showed up. There was a matron waiting for them in the foyer and she led all of them back to the escalator. I'm sure there are instances like this all of the time.