A thought experiment in Time Travel

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So would you intervene and save his life, under the theory that the church would be better off with Joseph surviving?

My gut feeling, and looking at it strictly academically/intellectually with no acknowledgement of the hand of God in things, I would say church is better off today (in terms of church membership, respectability, financial strength, growth, etc.) with Joseph dying a young martyr's death, church moving west, and Brigham Young moving the church forward than had Joseph lived a long life.

[SeattleUte]

I think JS had to be martyred to make the whole thing have wheels long term. It would be fun in some ways to start a religion. The sex and the windbaggery would be a blast. Having to orchestrate your own violent death would not be fun.

Note that Christianity's three seminal leaders/founders, Jesus, Peter and Paul, were all martryed. It makes a big difference.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by jay santos

The Mormon church what it is today is probably 50/50 weight between the visions and revelation of Joseph and the exodus to the west and the Brigham Young era.

I can't imagine what it would be like had Joseph lived to an old age. The church would be completely different today.

I am with Jay here. If you want to view things in terms of long-term impact on the church, then the martyrdom was a critical part of our history. I believe it galvanized the members and elevated the impact of what Joseph had done. I don't think anything he could have done after that point would have had the same impact.

There were several comments on this topic in the recent PBS special as I recall.

[il Padrino Ute]

Well, Utah would have never become a state and you and FM would not have that to gripe about.

[RockyBalboa]

What would you do Mike?

[Parrot Head]

Makes for the best "3 Nephites" story ever!

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

What would you do Mike?

Don't you think changing history is dangerous?

I've been thinking about this today, and I've come to the conclusion that today's church is more influenced by BY than it is JS. In other words, BY is more essential to the church than JS, in terms of practice, theology, beliefs, politics, basically every aspect of the church.

[woot]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Don't you think changing history is dangerous?

I've been thinking about this today, and I've come to the conclusion that today's church is more influenced by BY than it is JS. In other words, BY is more essential to the church than JS, in terms of practice, theology, beliefs, politics, basically every aspect of the church.

I agree with this. It's interesting to think about how the church would be different if it had stayed in MO or IL. I wonder if it would have done as well if it were mingled with civilization from the start, and if it had done as well I wonder if it would be more influential or considered more "normal" if it hadn't been on an island for so long.