BYU just hosted an international conference

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Absolutely. And I love that a handful of them are African American. I hope to see more. But among the highest ranks of church leadership, the tally is at zero and, to my knowledge, has been since the church's founding.

So we're going to split hairs on which Seventies are better than other Seventies?

[Indy Coug]

http://www.hotpepper.ca/lds/africa/history/leaders.html

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

So we're going to split hairs on which Seventies are better than other Seventies?

Split hairs? There is a substantial difference between the First Quorum and the Area Authorities. Don't pretend like you are totally unaware of that fact.

Even the number of Area Authorities who are African American is very low.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Split hairs? There is a substantial difference between the First Quorum and the Area Authorities. Don't pretend like you are totally unaware of that fact.

Even the number of Area Authorities who are African American is very low.

African American? Don't you mean African?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

African American? Don't you mean African?

Um no (where did you get that from in a conversation predominantly about race?). I used the politically correct terminology of African American without stopping to think that it isn't totally applicable here (since clearly not all GAs should be Americans). I mean black GAs from any part of the world.

The list you provided is a list of Africans, many of whom are white. I love the fact that they are from Africa; the church needs that kind of diversity as well. But racial diversity is incredibly lacking.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Um no (where did you get that from in a conversation predominantly about race?). I used the politically correct terminology of African American without stopping to think that it isn't totally applicable here (since clearly not all GAs should be Americans). I mean black GAs from any part of the world.

The list you provided is a list of Africans, many of whom are white. I love the fact that they are from Africa; the church needs that kind of diversity as well. But racial diversity is incredibly lacking.

Did you ever find the link that shows the church has 1,000,000 black members?

http://www.allaboutmormons.com/number_of_mormons.php

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Did you ever find the link that shows the church has 1,000,000 black members?

http://www.allaboutmormons.com/number_of_mormons.php

I don't have a link. I heard it in a talk. And certainly not all of them live in Africa. Brazil has a large number, as does the US and much of Europe.

You are all over the place in this conversation.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't have a link. I heard it in a talk. And certainly not all of them live in Africa. Brazil has a large number, as does the US and much of Europe.

You are all over the place in this conversation.

I think we've already hit the high points about 3 or 4 different times now, so I'm just having fun.


Cliff's Notes for those joining in late:

Cali Coug has his panties in a bunch about racial under-representation for LDS blacks in 'upper leadership', which includes some Seventies, but not others.

Indy Coug agrees that there aren't many now, but that will change in the near future because of the rapidly increasing number of black converts and a maturing cohort of black leadership, leaving Cali Coug searching for something else to bellyache about when it happens.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I think we've already hit the high points about 3 or 4 different times now, so I'm just having fun.


Cliff's Notes for those joining in late:

Cali Coug has his panties in a bunch about racial under-representation for LDS blacks in 'upper leadership', which includes some Seventies, but not others.

Indy Coug agrees that there aren't many now, but that will shortly change in the near future because of the rapidly increasing number of black converts and a maturing cohort of black leadership, leaving Cali Coug searching for something else to bellyache about when it happens.

Ah, I see. Concern about racial under-representation for LDS blacks in the leadership ranks is "bellyaching." And, fyi, the under-representation is among ALL general authorities (there are just a handful of blacks among all of the Quorums of the 70), but is particularly pronounced among the highest ranking leadership positions (the First Quorum of the 70 and the 12) where there are exactly zero.

Somehow, you see within the current trends that we will have lots of black LDS GAs in the near future. Given that the church has now been around for over 175 years and we haven't had one yet, I am not as optimistic as you are.

I do love how lightly you treat the topic.

Indy:

No black members of the 12, blah blah blah, none in the First Quorum of 70, yadda yadda yadda, racial under-representation, b-o-r-i-n-g, blah blah blah, will be fixed in the future.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Ah, I see. Concern about racial under-representation for LDS blacks in the leadership ranks is "bellyaching." And, fyi, the under-representation is among ALL general authorities (there are just a handful of blacks among all of the Quorums of the 70), but is particularly pronounced among the highest ranking leadership positions (the First Quorum of the 70 and the 12) where there are exactly zero.

Somehow, you see within the current trends that we will have lots of black LDS GAs in the near future. Given that the church has now been around for over 175 years and we haven't had one yet, I am not as optimistic as you are.

I do love how lightly you treat the topic.

Indy:

No black members of the 12, blah blah blah, none in the First Quorum of 70, yadda yadda yadda, racial under-representation, b-o-r-i-n-g, blah blah blah, will be fixed in the future.

Cali, how much turnover has there been in the upper echelons of LDS leadership (however it is that you define it) in the last 20 years? The fact that there several black Area Seventies is a sign that the day is closer that on the very rare occasion when an "opening" becomes available that a black member will fill that vacancy.

P.S. The first 125 to 150 years of the church is completely irrelevant.