Dispensing with some nonsense I have read ...

[tooblue]

Talks don’t drive people away. Such a notion is ridiculous; it is an attempt to rationalize ones’ own decision not to actively participate. It is excuse making. People who do not actively participate or who leave the church all together are responsible ALONE for such a decision.

Many simply decide this is the best course of action for them and their family etc. They might site situations where they were offended, isolated, hurt, but ultimately admit that it was their choice. I am grateful for the honesty.

Unfortunately many others simply prefer to place blame –to deride and attempt to compel others to placate and supply justification for their decision making. Such dishonesty frustrates me.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Talks don’t drive people away. Such a notion is ridiculous; it is an attempt to rationalize ones’ own decision not to actively participate. It is excuse making. People who do not actively participate or who leave the church all together are responsible ALONE for such a decision.

Many simply decide this is the best course of action for them and their family etc. They might site situations where they were offended, isolated, hurt, but ultimately admit that it was their choice. I am grateful for the honesty.

Unfortunately many others simply prefer to place blame –to deride and attempt to compel others to placate and supply justification for their decision making. Such dishonesty frustrates me.

Overstated or overemphasized claims by Church officials can drive a wedge into the psyches of members who are struggling with concepts.

If a woman, who has spiritual inclinations, but a need to work outside the home, hears constantly, "You women who work outside the home are evil" more or less, that will drive a wedge. It will isolate that woman from the Church.

It's not nonsense.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Overstated or overemphasized claims by Church officials can drive a wedge into the psyches of members who are struggling with concepts.

If a woman, who has spiritual inclinations, but a need to work outside the home, hears constantly, "You women who work outside the home are evil" more or less, that will drive a wedge. It will isolate that woman from the Church.

It's not nonsense.

Talks can drive people away. That isn't saying they should or shouldn't, but to say they don't is being ignorant of fact.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Overstated or overemphasized claims by Church officials can drive a wedge into the psyches of members who are struggling with concepts.

If a woman, who has spiritual inclinations, but a need to work outside the home, hears constantly, "You women who work outside the home are evil" more or less, that will drive a wedge. It will isolate that woman from the Church.

It's not nonsense.

At what point do we stand up and hold ourselves accountable for our choices, actions and behavior Archea?

It is nonsense. You won't stand for it politics -at any level of government. From the sounds of it you won't stand for it in your own home with your children. Why the double standard?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Overstated or overemphasized claims by Church officials can drive a wedge into the psyches of members who are struggling with concepts.

If a woman, who has spiritual inclinations, but a need to work outside the home, hears constantly, "You women who work outside the home are evil" more or less, that will drive a wedge. It will isolate that woman from the Church.

It's not nonsense.

Just like a talk that says "You may feel like you are on the fringe of the church, that you don't have a place in this church. I assure you that you do, that you are wanted, we need you. The church has a big tent, and the stakes of zion are to be enlarged"---this may draw people in. (My stake president has given such a talk in my ward).

It would be ridiculous to argue that a talk couldn't help the disaffected. It's also ridiculous to say the opposite may not occur.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Overstated or overemphasized claims by Church officials can drive a wedge into the psyches of members who are struggling with concepts.

If a woman, who has spiritual inclinations, but a need to work outside the home, hears constantly, "You women who work outside the home are evil" more or less, that will drive a wedge. It will isolate that woman from the Church.

It's not nonsense.

Tooblue makes a valid point. People choose to be driven away. They may use a repeated talk as an excuse to justify it, but they still choose to walk away.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Talks don’t drive people away. Such a notion is ridiculous; it is an attempt to rationalize ones’ own decision not to actively participate. It is excuse making. People who do not actively participate or who leave the church all together are responsible ALONE for such a decision.

Many simply decide this is the best course of action for them and their family etc. They might site situations where they were offended, isolated, hurt, but ultimately admit that it was their choice. I am grateful for the honesty.

Unfortunately many others simply prefer to place blame –to deride and attempt to compel others to placate and supply justification for their decision making. Such dishonesty frustrates me.

Ignorance. Obfuscation. Denial of reality.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Talks can drive people away. That isn't saying they should or shouldn't, but to say they don't is being ignorant of fact.

It's not about being ignorant -it's about proper perspective. The talk does not drive them away, it provides the excuse, the rationalization to choose to walk away.

And what of agency? Do these people forfeit agency because they listened to a talk?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by tooblue

At what point do we stand up and hold ourselves accountable for our choices, actions and behavior Archea?

It is nonsense. You won't stand for it politics -at any level of government. From the sounds of it you won't stand for it in your own home with your children. Why the double standard?

I'm not speaking that a talk will drive me away physically, but talks do drive wedges psychologically and then I just dismiss the importance of the talk and move on. However, I am concerned about the disaffected. JL and Indy think good riddance. I do not. I wish the Church would reach out to the disaffected.

If you are strong, it behooves you to aid those who are not.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by tooblue

It's not about being ignorant -it's about proper perspective. The talk does not drive them away, it provides the excuse, the rationalization to choose to walk away.

And what of agency? Do these people forfeit agency because they listened to a talk?

If it helps your conscience to believe nothing you do harms them and that they are ultimately responsible for their own actions, then so be it. They all make their own decisions and we should do everything can to offend them. Feel better?