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Old 09-26-2008, 01:02 AM   #1
creekster
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Default Lemond cannot let go

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ng_interbike08

LA has a news conference at Interbike (Arch, did you go?) to announce his racing schedule and describe his testing regime and Lemond shows up, in the front row, and criticizes the regime as being irrelevant (specifically he says the T/E ratio is 'irrelevant'; really? try telling that to Landis who was busted for having his T/E ratio out of whack).

Now Lemond may have some good points, but I think once again he is letting his bitter beer face get the best of him here. Why piss on Lance's parade now? Wait and see, and then let him have it later, once the actual web postings take place.

LA also suggests that he is not racing to win, but he couldn't bring himself to say it. If I was Contador I would be unhappy for two reasons. First, the team and Johan will have a presumptive interest in working for the old war horse and not me (and all Contador has done is win all three grand tours in the last 2 years) and, two, it is going to be an absolute CIRCUS everywhere LA goes and this will distract even if Contador does well. Say LA is leading or near the top of the peloton and then contador busts out on Hautacam (or something like that) and puts a minute into him. Ask yourself if the press goes to Contador or to LA first? This will be hard for contador to swallow no matter what, but it would be particularly galling, I suspect, if it was your own teammate and your own DS that are involved. This will be interesting, at the very least.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:35 AM   #2
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It was a crazy press conference for sure. Greg surprised everyone in the press and in Lance's group as well. It got tense in there for a couple of minutes.

Greg places the same intense effort into his crusade against doping and he did into winning races. I don't know if it is sour grapes as much as frustration with a system he knows to be broken. I think Greg is right on the money in regards to doping in the peloton and the lack of real effort in cleaning up the sport. Lance's doctor promised to make Lance's training data available for people to look and study. I think Greg was wanting data from Lance's TDF winning days made public as well -- so that those physiological measurements that don't change with age or training (only doping) can be compared. I don't even think he is only attacking Lance, rather I think he is challenging everyone to come clean and offer this same data. Lance is just a very popular figure and Greg could get a lot of attention on the subject -- which he did today.

Here are a couple of shots from today's exchange:

Lance looking at Greg.


Greg looking a little skeptical.

Crazy morning for sure. Many of us came out of there wondering what just happened.

mbb

PS -- I don't think Contador is ever going to be happy with Lance on the team -- even if Lance can't get back to form. It would be too much attention drawn away from Alberto's own accomplishments.

Last edited by mattbikeboy; 09-26-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:12 PM   #3
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I'm going to admit that I'm still a Lemond fan. Did he go too far yesterday? Probably. But I think it would be hard to have been a champion and to believe that doping by others made you irrelevant quicker than you otherwise would have been. He feels like he was America's greatest cyclist because he rode clean, but he only got a decade of anyone agreeing with that sentiment.
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:35 PM   #4
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Mattbb, thanks for the input. Sounds like you were there, which begs the question: why were you there? Are you an exhibitor, do you own a shop or, like Arch, are you just a wealthy warrior-rider who goes to be the first in your pace line with the latest gear? Seriously, it sounds like you are well-connected to th industry and even if you choose not to reveal how it is you are connected, I beseech you to keep us informed of the info you do get.

What is Greg's crusade against doping? Either he has one and the press ignores it but for his confrontations with LA (which may justify those confrontations), or he only has a jones for attacking LA. Lemond's crusade seems more about the subtext of getting people to concede that he was a great rider until there was doping and that LA does not deserve the adulation he receives (which might be true anyway, but it is not a zero sum game involving LA and Lemond).

I grew up on Lemond, as I have recounted in this forum before, and I think he was a great rider. And he has been through a lot, including the mess that was the Landis hearing. Even so, what Armstrong is doing is without question a step in the right direction. It just seems to me that he should have been quiet at the conference and waited until the exact contours of LA's drug testing program is revealed. Instead, it looks like he is just a bitter old poop.

Also, agree with you about Contador. If I were him I would be ticked.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creekster View Post
Mattbb, thanks for the input. Sounds like you were there, which begs the question: why were you there? Are you an exhibitor, do you own a shop or, like Arch, are you just a wealthy warrior-rider who goes to be the first in your pace line with the latest gear? Seriously, it sounds like you are well-connected to th industry and even if you choose not to reveal how it is you are connected, I beseech you to keep us informed of the info you do get.

What is Greg's crusade against doping? Either he has one and the press ignores it but for his confrontations with LA (which may justify those confrontations), or he only has a jones for attacking LA. Lemond's crusade seems more about the subtext of getting people to concede that he was a great rider until there was doping and that LA does not deserve the adulation he receives (which might be true anyway, but it is not a zero sum game involving LA and Lemond).

I grew up on Lemond, as I have recounted in this forum before, and I think he was a great rider. And he has been through a lot, including the mess that was the Landis hearing. Even so, what Armstrong is doing is without question a step in the right direction. It just seems to me that he should have been quiet at the conference and waited until the exact contours of LA's drug testing program is revealed. Instead, it looks like he is just a bitter old poop.

Also, agree with you about Contador. If I were him I would be ticked.
I'm just one of the working poor (okay, sports photographer). I've been covering all the racing events this past week for various bike and sport magazines like Luv2Bike (a new local cycling mag), Triathlete Mag, MTO Bikes, and Mountain Bike Action (if they go for it --my Cactus Cup shots).

Anyway, I think Greg feels his career was cut short by the dopers. There was that Greg LeMond special a year or two ago where you could see his frustration when he mentioned that guys who were off the back one year were suddenly much, much faster the next year. At the same time Greg felt he was in better condition than the year before and he was struggling to keep up. Not long after that season the Festina doping scandal broke and some of his suspicions were confirmed.

Zoom forward a few years and you see this rider win all these TDFs and people attribute it to training and dedication (no question). At the same, just about all the top riders in the peloton behind had been caught or named in doping investigations. If I remember correctly it is something like 8 of the top 10 in the 2005 TDF have been caught or investigated.

I think that Greg feels that there has been very little meaningful change in the doping regulation and enforcement and also a real lack of desire for Pro Tour / UCI / ASO to really change anything -- you know the bite the hand that feeds you type of thing.

I believe Greg when he says he loves the sport and wants to fix it. I talked to him and he really is sincere in this desire. He loves to ride and talk about cycling and can still kick some behind when he rides. I think it is ironic that people are so fast to jump to Lance's defense when it is most likely that he too has benefited from a rigorous pharmacological program before and after cancer treatment. But he is a national hero and anyone questioning him will be vilified.

Yesterday Greg was asking for data from Lance's earlier career that can be compared to current tests. There should be no doubt that Lance will be riding clean this time around. I still root for Lance when he races --maybe not as much as I used to though. Just like I did for Jan, Tyler, Michael, Alex and Floyd.

mbb
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:08 PM   #6
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Mbb, sometime, if you have the desire, I would love to hear tips on cycling photography.

I've photographed a crit, and a velodrome. But the velodrome was before I had a telephoto lens.

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Old 09-26-2008, 09:10 PM   #7
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Mbb, sometime, if you have the desire, I would love to hear tips on cycling photography.

I've photographed a crit, and a velodrome. But the velodrome was before I had a telephoto lens.


Nice photo but it is a little blurry.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbikeboy View Post
I'm just one of the working poor (okay, sports photographer). I've been covering all the racing events this past week for various bike and sport magazines like Luv2Bike (a new local cycling mag), Triathlete Mag, MTO Bikes, and Mountain Bike Action (if they go for it --my Cactus Cup shots).

Anyway, I think Greg feels his career was cut short by the dopers. There was that Greg LeMond special a year or two ago where you could see his frustration when he mentioned that guys who were off the back one year were suddenly much, much faster the next year. At the same time Greg felt he was in better condition than the year before and he was struggling to keep up. Not long after that season the Festina doping scandal broke and some of his suspicions were confirmed.

Zoom forward a few years and you see this rider win all these TDFs and people attribute it to training and dedication (no question). At the same, just about all the top riders in the peloton behind had been caught or named in doping investigations. If I remember correctly it is something like 8 of the top 10 in the 2005 TDF have been caught or investigated.

I think that Greg feels that there has been very little meaningful change in the doping regulation and enforcement and also a real lack of desire for Pro Tour / UCI / ASO to really change anything -- you know the bite the hand that feeds you type of thing.

I believe Greg when he says he loves the sport and wants to fix it. I talked to him and he really is sincere in this desire. He loves to ride and talk about cycling and can still kick some behind when he rides. I think it is ironic that people are so fast to jump to Lance's defense when it is most likely that he too has benefited from a rigorous pharmacological program before and after cancer treatment. But he is a national hero and anyone questioning him will be vilified.

Yesterday Greg was asking for data from Lance's earlier career that can be compared to current tests. There should be no doubt that Lance will be riding clean this time around. I still root for Lance when he races --maybe not as much as I used to though. Just like I did for Jan, Tyler, Michael, Alex and Floyd.

mbb
You ride for Luv2Bike or just photograph for them? I've seen them at the crits and their new kits.

Are you a west sider near Red Rock or an East sider?
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:24 PM   #9
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Thansk for the insight on Lemond. He is a great rider. But let's not mince words. He has one goal when he demands to see LA's prior data; he wants to bust LA for doping. I am not sure this is a very laudable goal at this point.

I concur that it looks pretty likely that LA used drugs somehow. as you say, most of his rivals have almost certianly imbibed and he slapped them around annually like they were using training wheels. To do that clean he would have to be a freak of nature (and there is a chance that is exactly what he is).

Now, if you are interested in cleaning up cycling (as opposed to justifying your own inglorious recusal from the peloton 20 years ago) then I can't imagine why you would slam LA at that news conference on that issue. Here is a guy (LA) who will be clean, and who will make more info publicly available in almost real time than any one ever has, and Lemond shows up and complains about it becasue he isn't releasing info that might prove that LA doped in the past.

Sorry, as much as I like Lemond (and I do, despite how this probabyl sounds) I think his timing was very poor, that he is an inarticualte advocate on behalf of this issue, and that he should approach it differently

I hope you'll stick around and drop us tidbits of info as you come across them. Also, please let us know when some of your work is publsihed on line so we can check it out. Are you going to be covering the Tour de Calif.? I am planning on volunteering at a stage or two.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creekster View Post
Thansk for the insight on Lemond. He is a great rider. But let's not mince words. He has one goal when he demands to see LA's prior data; he wants to bust LA for doping. I am not sure this is a very laudable goal at this point.

I concur that it looks pretty likely that LA used drugs somehow. as you say, most of his rivals have almost certianly imbibed and he slapped them around annually like they were using training wheels. To do that clean he would have to be a freak of nature (and there is a chance that is exactly what he is).

Now, if you are interested in cleaning up cycling (as opposed to justifying your own inglorious recusal from the peloton 20 years ago) then I can't imagine why you would slam LA at that news conference on that issue. Here is a guy (LA) who will be clean, and who will make more info publicly available in almost real time than any one ever has, and Lemond shows up and complains about it becasue he isn't releasing info that might prove that LA doped in the past.

Sorry, as much as I like Lemond (and I do, despite how this probabyl sounds) I think his timing was very poor, that he is an inarticualte advocate on behalf of this issue, and that he should approach it differently

I hope you'll stick around and drop us tidbits of info as you come across them. Also, please let us know when some of your work is publsihed on line so we can check it out. Are you going to be covering the Tour de Calif.? I am planning on volunteering at a stage or two.
I agree with your sentiments, and we cyclists should remember how narcissistic a sport cycling is, and that will tell how much more narcissistic its top heroes are. Greg is no exception. I see no benefit in trying to bring Lance down, especially in light of his existing goals, to promote cancer awareness and to do it cleanly.

Greg comes across now as, "I know I'm right, I know I'm right and everybody must listen to me."

Tearing down its one true star will not help the sport, but working with him might. Greg's performance was in poor taste.
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