So, the Patriots are cheaters

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Not really.

I think that a punishment was handed down, and it was fine...but it seemed something that was done to get it out of the public as fast as possible. Whereas with players, the NFL lets "all the facts play out." I think the NFL wanted this to be over as fast as possible so that guys like Easterbrook could be ignored.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the Pats have been doing this for years, and it has helped them gain a strategic advantage...and they win the Superbowl this year and Bellicheck resigns. Essentially the team would be getting punished for the coaches actions and he walks away with 4 super bowl rings and can ready himself for the Hall of Fame.

Like I said, the punishment was fine, but it was more of a matter of "dealing with it" short term, rather than addressing the potential long term issues with cheating. And, there was nothing done to hurt Bellicheck personally...the fine wasn't enough if you ask me...he should've probably been suspended.

Okay. I guess it's a matter of opinion. I don't think videotaping what you can observe in plain sight is as bad as using steroids in regards to competitive advantage.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Okay. I guess it's a matter of opinion. I don't think videotaping what you can observe in plain sight is as bad as using steroids in regards to competitive advantage.

Interestingly enough, the Colts bought an audio/video tape of all of Tom Brady's cadance calls from last season...

How is this different? I have no idea, perhaps the fact that they paid for it makes it okay.

As to your other point...I don't think anyone knows what the competitive advantage is, but it is hard to imagine that this was an isolated incident, and if rather than studying film on formations and blitz schemes etc, the players are just studying the signals, I think it would cause a competitive advantage.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

As to your other point...I don't think anyone knows what the competitive advantage is, but it is hard to imagine that this was an isolated incident, and if rather than studying film on formations and blitz schemes etc, the players are just studying the signals, I think it would cause a competitive advantage.

What if you hired someone with a photographic memory? Or even someone who watched the opposite sideline and wrote down all the signals they saw? Seems like the exact same thing as videotaping to me, but if I understand right, using a human is clearly within the rules.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

What if you hired someone with a photographic memory? Or even someone who watched the opposite sideline and wrote down all the signals they saw? Seems like the exact same thing as videotaping to me, but if I understand right, using a human is clearly within the rules.

Probably just the fact that you can go back and watch it as many times as you want...and compare it to what the defense did on any given play.

I think the rules are mucked up on this matter...although Goodell did send out a memo before the season about it...I suspect we'll see changes from the competition committe this off season.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Probably just the fact that you can go back and watch it as many times as you want...and compare it to what the defense did on any given play.

If you write down the exact times of the play calls you observed and then synced it up to the game film, you could do exactly that.

I don't think there's any distinction other than that machines are more efficient than us and make less mistakes.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

If you write down the exact times of the play calls you observed and then synced it up to the game film, you could do exactly that.

I don't think there's any distinction other than that machines are more efficient than us and make less mistakes.

That's true, but video taping is easier and requires less effort.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

That's true, but video taping is easier and requires less effort.

Also true.

[SteelBlue]

I think it's naive to believe that no other teams were doing this. In fact, is it crazy to think that it's because Mangini worked with Belichik that he knew what to report, and the best time to report it? How many other coaches have come off of the Bellicheck tree? If this has been going on for a while then there are likely several coaches around the league who know what's going on and haven't said anything about it. In fact, almost NO coaches have been whining about it. Makes me think that it goes on quite a bit more than anyone wants to believe. My guess is that there are a lot of coaches grateful that they weren't caught and that everyone has kept pretty quiet about it.

I was watching "NFL's Greatest Games" last night and they were showing 1998's Niners vs Packers. Favre was being interviewed and he talked about how they'd played each other so many times, that they each knew each other's signals by heart. The last Packer TD was a direct result of Favre calling a dummy audible because he knew the safety would try to jump the fake route. I think the seriousness of the signal stealing has been overblown. I think it's been going on a while, and I think a lot of coaches are hoping the topic just fades away because they know a little too much.