UFC vs Pride

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

about going to the ground. my friend tells me it isn't realistic in street fighting.

because in street fighting if you go to the ground, you bite. only unskilled fighters end up fighting on the ground.

of course this doesn't apply in UFC, where biting is not allowed.

I was watching one of these UFC fights on youtube that was almost solely on the ground. Talk about boring. Seemed more like the equivalent of two gay dudes in slow motion.

In street fighting, often somebody tries to tackle the other person and then submissions are important. it depends upon spacing.

Boxing is a great skill, and skilled boxers can accomplish much, but they also can be taken as well. The more skill one possesses the less he will kick, but kicking knees and groins can be effective.

[MikeWaters]

Fights, of any kind of decent calibre, are rarely decided on the ground. This is according to my friend who spent most of his life in the merchant marines, frequenting bars and whore houses. I think he knows what he is talking about. He's taken a bullet in the abdomen, a shotgun blast to the achilles, and a baseball bat to the head. That speaks to his credibility.

Growing up, I saw a lot of kids' fights end up in headlocks and the like. Sort of like the things you see in the octagon. Guys working as a bouncer one week, suddenly UFC fighter the next week. You'd never see this in boxing.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

about going to the ground. my friend tells me it isn't realistic in street fighting.

because in street fighting if you go to the ground, you bite. only unskilled fighters end up fighting on the ground.

of course this doesn't apply in UFC, where biting is not allowed.

I was watching one of these UFC fights on youtube that was almost solely on the ground. Talk about boring. Seemed more like the equivalent of two gay dudes in slow motion.

Actually your friend is off....by oh say about 95% of fights that actually occur end up on the ground. Most fights end and end quickly, and most inevitably end up on the ground.

You can choose to refer to Liddell as an average puncher. One shot by Liddell to Gatti's noggin would end the fight and end it quickly.

Now Mayweather might be a different story, but if he also got caught with one of Liddell's shots the fight would be over,,,and again, over quickly.

If we're talking a straight boxing match,,,then the sweet science might win over, but if it's a MMA style match where punching, grappling and holds are brought into play people forget that Liddell's ground defense and holds are underated and he rarely has to use them because he's smart enough to not get into those situations. Randy Couture was one of the few who could frustrate Liddell into that position.

In a flat out street fight MMA style the boxers you could suggest would be lucky to last a minute against someone like Liddell.

[MikeWaters]

This is not a knock on you guys, but my friend says that part of UFC's popularity is just plain and simple racism. White guys watching white guys. And then at the end they all smoke a a cigarette.

[MikeWaters]

Just watched clips from the first Liddell vs. Couture fight. Most of it was on their feet, until the end when Couture grounds and pounds. But the fight was won before that occurred. Again the theme is "on their feet."

Mayweather vs. Liddell would not be a fair comparison. Mayweather fights at welterweight (up to 147). According to wikipedia, Liddell weighs in at 205. That would put him in the heavyweight division. Could Liddell take out the best heavyweights in history in a UFC match? I don't think so.

[MikeWaters]

Imagine Bernard Hopkins against Liddell. I think anyone that would go into the UFC ring against Bernard Hopkins ought to fear for their life.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Just watched clips from the first Liddell vs. Couture fight. Most of it was on their feet, until the end when Couture grounds and pounds. But the fight was won before that occurred. Again the theme is "on their feet."

Mayweather vs. Liddell would not be a fair comparison. Mayweather fights at welterweight (up to 147). According to wikipedia, Liddell weighs in at 205. That would put him in the heavyweight division. Could Liddell take out the best heavyweights in history in a UFC match? I don't think so.

Here's what you're missing. Because of his kenpo training, you can't see his power, but it's his chi training plus angles that make him effective.

If you saw how he broke down Ortiz, who was a wrestler, then you'd know what I mean.

Ortiz started witha combination, then got sloppy opening him up for Liddell's combination in betweeh Tito's guard.

Your friend appears biased, as the master in Fearless stated, it's not about the art but the artisan.

A gifted boxer, trained and fit, can defeat most other opponents. However, you ignore the benefits of knowing you might get bit, kicked, kneed or head butted. If you ignore that, then I have this challenge. Go to a boxer and tell him he can't kick, but you can, that he must comply with boxing rules and you don't. You should be able to fare better than you would when you must comply with the rules. Additionally all arts eventually teach similar principles, of weighting, angles, power, deception and using balance against an opponent.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Fights, of any kind of decent calibre, are rarely decided on the ground.

I disagree with your friend. I think most fights end up going to the ground. I do agree with you on one point though, I much prefer to watch boxing over UFC. Especially the heavyweight fights of the glory days in the 50's-70's. I can watch ESPN classic fights all day long. I can watch a couple of UFC fights and then I feel like I've seen everything. Boxing is just a prettier art.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Imagine Bernard Hopkins against Liddell. I think anyone that would go into the UFC ring against Bernard Hopkins ought to fear for their life.

Hopkins wouldn't make it through the first round with MMA rules.

[MikeWaters]

what is MMA?