Kobe is amazing

[MikeWaters]

Phil Jackson is also an anti-Mormon. I don't like bigots.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

And yes, Mahe is a remarkable fornicator. The difference between Mahe and Kobe is that Kobe believes he is entitled to cheat on his wife because he he is Kobe; Mahe made a mistake.

How does anyone know except for Kobe what he believes he is entitled to? Why wasn't Kobe's admission of adultery just a mistake? Maybe Kobe should get a part time gig as a host at a sports bar too. After all diapers aren't free.

As far as Kobe's TO's. He handles the ball an awful lot and plays a ton of minutes. He plays in the triangle which is based on reads so if one player makes a bad read there's the potential for increased turnovers. And of those that have more TO's per game, 6 are all-stars too and Kobe has a better A/TO ratio than all of them except Nash, Wade and Iverson. However, Wade and Iverson's ratios are relatively close to Kobe's and can be a wash.

And yes, the Lakers rank 16th in A/TO ratio. But one tenth is all that keeps them from moving up 8 spots so this statistic isn't as condemning as you suggest. Also, the Lakers don't really have a PG to take care of the ball like many of these other teams do. That responsibility falls heavily on Kobe and Odom who is 13th in TO's per game which skews the Lakers ratio even more.

[il Padrino Ute]

Surfah - Kobe is a helluva basketball player. I'll believe that until the day I die.

My comment about what he feels he's entitled to is based on the fact that I was around guys like him when I played ball in school. Unfortunately, athletes have been coddled and given everything they want for most of their lives. Then when they can't have something, they either take it or bitch and moan about how they're getting the shaft. Kobe really is no different from any of these guys.

Yes, it turned out that he didn't rape this girl in Colorado, but unless I misunderstood what happened, she wasn't as consenting as Kobe and his attorneys would have us believe. All they had to do was cast a shadow of doubt that it was rape.

I apologize if my hatred for Kobe offends you, but you need not take it seriously, as I am able to separate Kobe from his fans.

Besides, as Jazz fan since they moved to SLC in '79, I have to hate the Lakers and their players. I'll never forgive Karl Malone and refuse to look at his ugly statue in the plaza at the arena formerly known as the Delta Center and now named after a toxic dump site.

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I loathe the Lakers. I execrate Phil Jackson and his immeasurable arrogance.

Kobe has a tremendous amount of talent and I will always recognize that talent, but the abhorrence I feel for him is more than the core temperature of an infinite number of suns.

And yes, Mahe is a remarkable fornicator. The difference between Mahe and Kobe is that Kobe believes he is entitled to cheat on his wife because he is Kobe; Mahe made a mistake.

Did you just sort of defend a BYU guy? Man, you must REALLY hate Kobe.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Surfah - Kobe is a helluva basketball player. I'll believe that until the day I die.

My comment about what he feels he's entitled to is based on the fact that I was around guys like him when I played ball in school. Unfortunately, athletes have been coddled and given everything they want for most of their lives. Then when they can't have something, they either take it or bitch and moan about how they're getting the shaft. Kobe really is no different from any of these guys.

Yes, it turned out that he didn't rape this girl in Colorado, but unless I misunderstood what happened, she wasn't as consenting as Kobe and his attorneys would have us believe. All they had to do was cast a shadow of doubt that it was rape.

I apologize if my hatred for Kobe offends you, but you need not take it seriously, as I am able to separate Kobe from his fans.

Besides, as Jazz fan since they moved to SLC in '79, I have to hate the Lakers and their players. I'll never forgive Karl Malone and refuse to look at his ugly statue in the plaza at the arena formerly known as the Delta Center and now named after a toxic dump site.

I understand man. Really I'll admit to trolling here. I could never defend Kobe's actions in Colorado. That said, based on everything I have read and I followed the case quite closely, I don't believe for a second that Kobe did anything forcible or without consent.

And I understand where you're coming from about gifted athletes and their sense of entitlement. I played with several as well. But I disagree that Kobe is one of them. His work ethic and driven nature I think are contrary to that attitude you suggest. He wants to be the best. And he practices and trains to be the best.

I think the level at which Kobe is playing right now is something special that basketball fans should enjoy.

Here's a nice article that John Celestand wrote about Kobe last year that I think illustrates my point. Yes he thinks he can do everything. Maybe to a fault at times. But he'll keep trying again and again:

Preparation the key to Kobe's success

By John Celestand

Nov. 10, 2005

In the fall of 1996, my roommate at Villanova, Howard Brown, and I shared a laugh. A skinny bald-headed high school kid, who was a star at the school around the corner, sat in our locker room and told us he probably wouldn't come to Villanova. The "cocky" kid told us he would probably just skip college altogether. Instead, he would just go straight to the NBA.

We laughed that night back in our dormitory. We took turns asking each other, "Who does this kid think he is? What is he smoking?" We even tuned in the television to laugh at the kid as he gave a lackluster performance in the McDonald's All-American game later that winter.

That kid was Kobe Bryant and now I wonder what the hell were we laughing at.

Maybe we were laughing at the fact he would play his high school playoff games in our gym and sell it out -- when sometimes we couldn't. Maybe we were laughing at the fact he would show up on our campus at the parties we threw -- and some people thought he was the host.

One thing is for sure: Kobe Bryant believed he was Superman. He believed he could accomplish anything. This is the basic belief of many successful professional athletes. The great ones, however, seem to have a deeper and profound belief in themselves. A belief that can propel them to higher elevations that other surrounding believers never reach.

I would join the "kid" on the Lakers in 1999 when I was drafted as the No. 30 overall pick by the organization. I had followed Kobe on television for three years prior to joining the team. But TV could not illustrate how Kobe made himself. Only viewing him in person, right there in the practice facility in El Segundo, could a person get an accurate gauge. There was a reason for his greatness. There was a reason for his cockiness. Kobe prepared, he worked, he prepared and he worked again.

The first time I began to understand why he was the best was in the pre-season. In a game against the Wizards, Kobe broke the wrist on his shooting hand. He was always the first person to practice every day, arriving at least an hour and a half early. This would infuriate me because I wanted to be the first person to practice, just as I had always been at Villanova and Piscataway High in New Jersey. To add insult to injury, I lived only 10 minutes from the practice facility -- while Kobe was at least 35 minutes away.

I am ashamed to say that I was excited the day after his injury because I knew that there was no way that No. 8 (as former Laker point guard Tyronn Lue called him) would be the first to practice, if he would even be there at all.

As I walked through the training room, I became stricken with fear when I heard a ball bouncing. No, no, it couldn't be! Yes it could. Kobe was already in a full sweat with a cast on his right arm and dribbling and shooting with his left.

As the next couple of days of practice passed, I would glance over as Phil Jackson was talking and see Kobe on the side going full speed and pulling up with his left. He was a conducting an all-out practice with himself. Lakers trainer Gary Viti, had to come in and tell Kobe to take a rest. But when Viti left, Kobe was at it again.

One day I was shooting on a side basket -- on the court that Kobe had made his own practice spot. He challenged me.

"Cele, let's shoot," he said. "Wanna play H-O-R-S-E?"

I laughed at him. I was actually insulted that he would challenge me, a pro, to a game of horse with his left hand. After he insisted, I figured I would just whip him and prove to him that he wasn't Superman. He couldn't do everything.

He made shot after shot after shot. I was beginning to feel more pressure as I got each letter. First H, then O, then R, then S. I couldn't let this man beat me with a broken shooting hand. My gosh, he was shooting threes with his left. I finally made a deep three and the stars aligned and Kobe missed. I had escaped the most embarrassing moment of my basketball life. When he missed he was infuriated.

"Come on Cele, let's play again," Kobe insisted

He really thought he could win and he almost did. He really thought he was Superman. He really thought I would put myself in another situation to lose all of my dignity. I laughed at him again

"Maybe later," I replied.

When Kobe's wrist healed and he came back during the regular season, he again proved to me that he believed he could do anything. During his first game back, Kobe drove left and pulled up for a jumper. It was an airball. He shot it with his left. The result didn't matter. The fact he attempted the shot astounded me. In an NBA game in front of thousands, the man shot a left-handed jumper. He believed it would go in. He really believed.

Today, five years later, nothing I see from or about No. 8 surprises me. It didn't surprise me that he thought he could win without Shaquille O'Neal. It didn't surprise me that he didn't succeed. It won't surprise if he comes back and succeeds this year. It didn't surprise me that he could go to Colorado, sit in court, fly to Denver and drop game-winning shot all on the same day. It doesn't surprise me that Kobe is averaging 36.5 points per game. It won't surprise me if he leads the league in scoring.

I called my old roommate, Howard Brown, long distance over in Spain where he is playing professionally. We talked about life, we talked about old times. We talked about Kobe leading the league in scoring.

We both agreed Kobe's game is no joke and we ain't laughing no more.

[RockyBalboa]

Surfah most people just don't like receiving joy from cheering on a narcissitic rapist no matter how talented they are.

Since you do, a debate is obviously fruitless.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Surfah most people just don't like receiving joy from cheering on a narcissitic rapist no matter how talented they are.

Since you do, a debate is obviously fruitless.

Rocky he's a narcissistic adulterer. You seem to forget that.

Your comments always intrigue me. You can use whatever standard of judgement you want to determine who you champion. But I don't understand the moral grounds with which you determine the worth of an athlete's accomplishments in sport. I am not saying one should cheer for Kobe. But like Il Pad recognize his talent as extraordinary and special. Mind you there are many athletes who I don't like but I am in awe of their achievments and athletic prowess. By your same standard of judgement Michael Jordan is a narcissistic adulterer. Ray Lewis is a narcissistic murderer. Barry Bonds is a narcissistic drug user. Or does your moral judgement extend only to Kobe because you just don't like him? I am not trolling here but genuinely interested in your standard of jugement here and how it diminishes what an athlete has accomplished.

[livecoug]

Kobe needs to go away. Nothing redeeming about him.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by surfah33

Rocky he's a narcissistic adulterer. You seem to forget that.

Your comments always intrigue me. You can use whatever standard of judgement you want to determine who you champion. But I don't understand the moral grounds with which you determine the worth of an athlete's accomplishments in sport. I am not saying one should cheer for Kobe. But like Il Pad recognize his talent as extraordinary and special. Mind you there are many athletes who I don't like but I am in awe of their achievments and athletic prowess. By your same standard of judgement Michael Jordan is a narcissistic adulterer. Ray Lewis is a narcissistic murderer. Barry Bonds is a narcissistic drug user. Or does your moral judgement extend only to Kobe because you just don't like him? I am not trolling here but genuinely interested in your standard of jugement here and how it diminishes what an athlete has accomplished.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Thank you for proving my point.

Wow that was unexpected.