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jay santos · 09-20-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what percent of the Handbooks is "thus saith the Lord" in your opinion?

This might not have anything to do with your point, but I think this concept is lost on some.

If policy changes, it assumed that previous policy was incorrect. When it comes to policy, you have doctrine (that doesn't change) applied to circumstances (world conditions, church logistics, finances, information and understanding) that are ever changing. Policy change should be expected in the church.

MikeWaters · 09-20-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

This might not have anything to do with your point, but I think this concept is lost on some.

If policy changes, it assumed that previous policy was incorrect. When it comes to policy, you have doctrine (that doesn't change) applied to circumstances (world conditions, church logistics, finances, information and understanding) that are ever changing. Policy change should be expected in the church.

I don't disagree. But saying that children are still sealed to the parents after a sealing is canceled is not policy.

jay santos · 09-20-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't disagree. But saying that children are still sealed to the parents after a sealing is canceled is not policy.

Maybe the handbook is where they put the Norm Chow "how the hell should I know" stuff that they have to make a decision on but they really don't know.

YOhio · 09-20-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The Handbook of Instructions is the fifth standard work.

Great. One more standard work that I have to feel guilty about not reading. Thanks.

Tex · 09-20-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm asking what % of the handbook is non policy boring stuff, and would actually belong in a D&C document.

I haven't really thought about it honestly, but my knee-jerk reaction is that not very much would. Maybe there are some things, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't disagree. But saying that children are still sealed to the parents after a sealing is canceled is not policy.

I'm not sure I agree. The "best practices" (as we call it in the tech sector) for temple ordinances have changed over the decades. If mistakes were/are being made, it will all get settled equitably at some point.

creekster · 09-20-2007, 10:42 PM

I think virtually none of the handbook is of standard work type import. Maybe none at all, but I can't recall it all right now, either. As I recall there is some introductory language that states/suggests these are guidlelines subject to inspiration and implementation in the local stakes and wards. I may be worng about that. I iwll try to find out. Either way, it is not doctinre. Event he doctrine type statements such as sealings in temple, are not dcotrine but policies based on doctrine and possibly subject to change. The handbook is to guide local leaders in dealing with issues that come up when running a unit.

Requiem · 09-20-2007, 11:19 PM

The handbook contents are applied too inconsistently to even be considered as canon. The inconsistent application of church discipline is a case in point (see my previous posts on this topic). The fact is some LDS SP's and bishops go by the letter of the law, others use the spirit and their own common sense. We need more of the latter.

Archaea · 09-20-2007, 11:23 PM

They are operational in nature, but regarded almost sacrosanct, in a legalistic sense.

They are odd in how they are treated and I have no idea how the concept arose. Anybody know? Is this part of the Lee correlation efforts?

creekster · 09-20-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

The handbook contents are applied too inconsistently to even be considered as canon. The inconsistent application of church discipline is a case in point (see my previous posts on this topic). The fact is some LDS SP's and bishops go by the letter of the law, others use the spirit and their own common sense. We need more of the latter.

Sometimes teh distinction is becaseu of the personality involved, other times it is simply du to the amount of excpereince the leader has. It is hard to be a bishop or a SP. In my stake, the SP makes very clear that the handbook is not to be followed dogmatically, and it is only a guidline subjec tto inspiration and common sense. I like his approach.

Tex · 09-20-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

Sometimes teh distinction is becaseu of the personality involved, other times it is simply du to the amount of excpereince the leader has. It is hard to be a bishop or a SP. In my stake, the SP makes very clear that the handbook is not to be followed dogmatically, and it is only a guidline subjec tto inspiration and common sense. I like his approach.

I've posted this comment of E. Ballard's before. I think it nicely sums up the best approach:

Quote:

Second, be innovative. As we work to magnify our callings, we should seek the inspiration of the Spirit to solve problems in ways that will best help the people we serve. We have handbooks of instruction, and their guidelines should be followed. But within that framework are substantial opportunities to think, to be creative, and to make use of individual talents. The instruction to magnify our callings is not a command to embellish and complicate them. To innovate does not necessarily mean to expand; very often it means to simplify.

http://lds.org/conference/talk/displ...-646-7,00.html

09-20-2007, 10:42 PM	#16
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	I think virtually none of the handbook is of standard work type import. Maybe none at all, but I can't recall it all right now, either. As I recall there is some introductory language that states/suggests these are guidlelines subject to inspiration and implementation in the local stakes and wards. I may be worng about that. I iwll try to find out. Either way, it is not doctinre. Event he doctrine type statements such as sealings in temple, are not dcotrine but policies based on doctrine and possibly subject to change. The handbook is to guide local leaders in dealing with issues that come up when running a unit. __________________ Sorry for th e tpyos.

09-20-2007, 11:23 PM	#18
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	They are operational in nature, but regarded almost sacrosanct, in a legalistic sense. They are odd in how they are treated and I have no idea how the concept arose. Anybody know? Is this part of the Lee correlation efforts? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

09-20-2007, 11:19 PM	#17
Requiem Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 474	The handbook contents are applied too inconsistently to even be considered as canon. The inconsistent application of church discipline is a case in point (see my previous posts on this topic). The fact is some LDS SP's and bishops go by the letter of the law, others use the spirit and their own common sense. We need more of the latter.