I was sort of baffled by the black guy that quoted John Taylor - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Black Diamond Bay · 05-02-2007, 03:51 PM

he said there's a quote about how black people are here to represent Satan. What's that all about? I've never heard such a quote. Anyone else familiar with it? I can't fathom why he felt like that needed to be mentioned if it was true. Maybe so he could feel more persecuted? I thought for sure he was going to quote 1st edition Mormon Doctrine, but instead he came busting out with that one.

MikeWaters · 05-02-2007, 03:58 PM

A lot of hurtful things were said in the past about blacks, by Mormon authorities. Brigham Young, in particular, comes to mind.

Unfortunately, some of that mindset also existed among members. The priesthood ban was like proof that God didn't like blacks either. It justified racism.

It's not hard to imagine how this might cause great hurt.

I heard from a member of my ward, growing up, that when the 1978 priesthood revelation was announced, that full page ads were taken in Salt Lake papers by individuals in protest.

Personally, I thought the segment on blacks and the priesthood was VERY generous. It could have been much more critical than it was.

Indy Coug · 05-02-2007, 04:00 PM

There as a Ghanaian counselor in the bishopric in one of the wards I served in on my mission. He joined in 1975. He was a stud.

MikeWaters · 05-02-2007, 04:03 PM

I think it's awesome that those folks started the church out there without any approval from authorities.

Can you imagine the reation in SLC? "We have entire congregations of blacks who call themselves LDS and Mormon. What are we going to do?"

Thankfully, no cease and desist order.

Thank God for Spencer W. Kimball.

Sleeping in EQ · 05-02-2007, 04:03 PM

Darius Gray is one of the founders of the Genesis Group. He's a stand up guy who joined the Church before 1978. That John Taylor quote is bad. Sadly, there are plenty of other terrible quotes to choose from, some much more contemporary than President Taylor's.

Black Diamond Bay · 05-02-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

he said there's a quote about how black people are here to represent Satan. What's that all about? I've never heard such a quote. Anyone else familiar with it? I can't fathom why he felt like that needed to be mentioned if it was true. Maybe so he could feel more persecuted? I thought for sure he was going to quote 1st edition Mormon Doctrine, but instead he came busting out with that one.

I know that, but the particular quote that he referenced doesn't sound at all familiar. I don't think I've ever heard it. Anyone else heard it before?

MikeWaters · 05-02-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

I know that, but the particular quote that he referenced doesn't sound at all familiar. I don't think I've ever heard it. Anyone else heard it before?

Not to interrupt your conversation with yourself

(being single must suck!)....there have been many reasons given over the years justifying the policy. Let's say none of them are particularly favorable to blacks.

It became one of those things where we have a practice, let's figure out the doctrine.

BarbaraGordon · 05-02-2007, 04:18 PM

Diamond, to answer your question, and I may be mistaken, but I believe these were the quotes referred to...

"And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses 22:304).

"Why is it, in fact, that we should have a devil? Why did the Lord not kill him long ago? Because he could not do without him. He needed the devil and a great many of those who do his bidding to keep men straight, that we may learn to place our dependence on God, and trust in Him, and to observe his laws and keep his commandments. When he destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian world, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth" (Journal of Discourses 23:336).

Black Diamond Bay · 05-02-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Diamond, to answer your question, and I may be mistaken, but I believe these were the quotes referred to...

"And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses 22:304).

"Why is it, in fact, that we should have a devil? Why did the Lord not kill him long ago? Because he could not do without him. He needed the devil and a great many of those who do his bidding to keep men straight, that we may learn to place our dependence on God, and trust in Him, and to observe his laws and keep his commandments. When he destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian world, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth" (Journal of Discourses 23:336).

I'm guessing you're right. This must be the one. Interesting, thanks.

YOhio · 05-02-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Diamond, to answer your question, and I may be mistaken, but I believe these were the quotes referred to...

Whoa! Where did our resident Protestant get a hold of the Journal of Discourses? It's almost like you have had training to find information inside of books.

05-02-2007, 03:51 PM	#1
Black Diamond Bay Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 1,000	I was sort of baffled by the black guy that quoted John Taylor he said there's a quote about how black people are here to represent Satan. What's that all about? I've never heard such a quote. Anyone else familiar with it? I can't fathom why he felt like that needed to be mentioned if it was true. Maybe so he could feel more persecuted? I thought for sure he was going to quote 1st edition Mormon Doctrine, but instead he came busting out with that one.

05-02-2007, 04:03 PM	#5
Sleeping in EQ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto Posts: 3,085	Darius Gray is one of the founders of the Genesis Group. He's a stand up guy who joined the Church before 1978. That John Taylor quote is bad. Sadly, there are plenty of other terrible quotes to choose from, some much more contemporary than President Taylor's. __________________ "Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

05-02-2007, 03:58 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	A lot of hurtful things were said in the past about blacks, by Mormon authorities. Brigham Young, in particular, comes to mind. Unfortunately, some of that mindset also existed among members. The priesthood ban was like proof that God didn't like blacks either. It justified racism. It's not hard to imagine how this might cause great hurt. I heard from a member of my ward, growing up, that when the 1978 priesthood revelation was announced, that full page ads were taken in Salt Lake papers by individuals in protest. Personally, I thought the segment on blacks and the priesthood was VERY generous. It could have been much more critical than it was.

05-02-2007, 04:00 PM	#3
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	There as a Ghanaian counselor in the bishopric in one of the wards I served in on my mission. He joined in 1975. He was a stud.

05-02-2007, 04:18 PM	#8
BarbaraGordon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gotham City Posts: 7,157	Diamond, to answer your question, and I may be mistaken, but I believe these were the quotes referred to... "And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses 22:304). "Why is it, in fact, that we should have a devil? Why did the Lord not kill him long ago? Because he could not do without him. He needed the devil and a great many of those who do his bidding to keep men straight, that we may learn to place our dependence on God, and trust in Him, and to observe his laws and keep his commandments. When he destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian world, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth" (Journal of Discourses 23:336).