The Sacrament of Doubt - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Anthesian · 10-02-2008, 02:15 PM

"Doubt and faith are twin offspring of genuine spirituality. True spirituality is a free mind that practices irony and compassion. Without doubt, faith hardens into arrogance. Without doubt, we cannot doubt ourselves, our assumptions, aspirations, expectations and predispositions. Without self-doubt, we cannot question our righteousness; we cannot repent; we cannot forgive. Without doubt, we cannot tolerate the unfamiliar. Without doubt, we cannot criticize the power structures that serve us and afflict others.

"Perhaps faith is to give God the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps doubt is to restrain the narcissism of certainty. For me, the bread of doubt is as sacred as the water of faith. Together the form a Eucharist of hope, a wellspring of charity--a love that is neither partial nor sentimental, but simply the heart's desire that God's love fall like rain in equal measure upon the just and the unjust, that no one claim a blessing one would withhold from another or impose a burden one would not bear oneself."

Paul James Toscano
"The Sacrament of Doubt"

This is a wonderful message of unconventional orthodoxy.

Jeff Lebowski · 10-02-2008, 02:57 PM

Hey Anthesian. I see you are back and I really liked that FP statement from the RLDS church that you posted today. But I have to ask, have you decided on a persona this time around? Active gay LDS? Former RLDS? Or something new?

Indy Coug · 10-02-2008, 03:06 PM

I'm curious about the repeated Toscano citations.

Tex · 10-02-2008, 03:07 PM

This is a signature statement of apostates. They have good thoughts, but they always end up taking it too far.

Doubt obviously plays a role in faith, and I like his comparison ... until he starts using the terms Eucharist and sacrament. Heh. Too far.

Anthesian · 10-02-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Hey Anthesian. I see you are back and I really liked that FP statement from the RLDS church that you posted today. But I have to ask, have you decided on a persona this time around? Active gay LDS? Former RLDS? Or something new?

I'm glad you like the post. I have determined that I'm an unconventional restorationist. There are aspects to the restoration movement that I accept and reject. I am part of no specific movement within the movement. Since the last time I was here...I took the time to truly decide where I fit in the grand scheme of things. Conclusion: I don't. A former stake president jokingly called me a heretic. However, that is a badge I'm willing to wear. I have been labeled an apostate...another badge I'm willing to wear. I have decided that it is important to allow myself to be and not allow beliefs to define.

Rejections of LDS theology:
- Pearl of Great Price
- Blacks have cursed skin
- King Follett Sermon
- God is a polygamist (I'm not sure of the validity of such an audacious doctrine)
- The LDS church is my means for salvation
- Scripture is definitive and authoritative

Rejections of RLDS theology:
- God is abstract
- Myth and mysticism have no place in theology
- Scripture is definitive and authoritative

Ideologies I accept:
- The possibility of a God the Mother
- Christ is not of virgin birth
- Sinaiticus, Vaticinus, Alexandrius (oldest manuscripts of scripture) hold no true purpose but to create a boxed religion
- Abraham was originally polytheistic
- Job is a fictitious story of principle
- Spirituality outweighs religion
- Orthodoxy is not as important as orthopraxy
- Jude (Judas Thomas) may have been Christ's twin brother
- I'm not creedal
- I don't believe in absolute truth as conveyed through the mouths of humans
- WE ARE ALL BIG FAT SINNERS

Personally, I'm a gay restorationist that is not orthodox. I'm a free-thinking, against the grain child of God. Whoever that God is. I am me but I am nothing. I exist but I'm abstract. I'm definitive but hollow. I believe in peace and social justice. I extend my love to all God's children without condition. I am trying to cure myself of my past sin so that I can better my moral principles. I hope for great things but understand that I'm not always worthy of blessings. I entertain the beliefs and principles of others without bias or ill will. We are individuals and not drones. Each of us have an individual journey of faith and must respect each other for our different view points. I don't know where I'm supposed to go but I look forward to the journey. For those that have lied to me or done wrong to me...I have forgiven and pray for the same courtesy as I rehabilitate myself out of a monster.

Peace and Blessings

Levin · 10-02-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthesian

I'm a free-thinking, against the grain child of God. Whoever that God is. I am me but I am nothing. I exist but I'm abstract. I'm definitive but hollow. I believe in peace and social justice. I extend my love to all God's children without condition. I am trying to cure myself of my past sin so that I can better my moral principles. I hope for great things but understand that I'm not always worthy of blessings. I entertain the beliefs and principles of others without bias or ill will. We are individuals and not drones. Each of us have an individual journey of faith and must respect each other for our different view points. I don't know where I'm supposed to go but I look forward to the journey. For those that have lied to me or done wrong to me...I have forgiven and pray for the same courtesy as I rehabilitate myself out of a monster.

Peace and Blessings

Cue the Yanni music. "Live at the Acropolis," perhaps?

TripletDaddy · 10-02-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthesian

I'm glad you like the post. I have determined that I'm an unconventional restorationist. There are aspects to the restoration movement that I accept and reject. I am part of no specific movement within the movement. Since the last time I was here...I took the time to truly decide where I fit in the grand scheme of things. Conclusion: I don't. A former stake president jokingly called me a heretic. However, that is a badge I'm willing to wear. I have been labeled an apostate...another badge I'm willing to wear. I have decided that it is important to allow myself to be and not allow beliefs to define.

Rejections of LDS theology:
- Pearl of Great Price
- Blacks have cursed skin
- King Follett Sermon
- God is a polygamist (I'm not sure of the validity of such an audacious doctrine)
- The LDS church is my means for salvation
- Scripture is definitive and authoritative

Rejections of RLDS theology:
- God is abstract
- Myth and mysticism have no place in theology
- Scripture is definitive and authoritative

Ideologies I accept:
- The possibility of a God the Mother
- Christ is not of virgin birth
- Sinaiticus, Vaticinus, Alexandrius (oldest manuscripts of scripture) hold no true purpose but to create a boxed religion
- Abraham was originally polytheistic
- Job is a fictitious story of principle
- Spirituality outweighs religion
- Orthodoxy is not as important as orthopraxy
- Jude (Judas Thomas) may have been Christ's twin brother
- I'm not creedal
- I don't believe in absolute truth as conveyed through the mouths of humans
- WE ARE ALL BIG FAT SINNERS

Personally, I'm a gay restorationist that is not orthodox. I'm a free-thinking, against the grain child of God. Whoever that God is. I am me but I am nothing. I exist but I'm abstract. I'm definitive but hollow. I believe in peace and social justice. I extend my love to all God's children without condition. I am trying to cure myself of my past sin so that I can better my moral principles. I hope for great things but understand that I'm not always worthy of blessings. I entertain the beliefs and principles of others without bias or ill will. We are individuals and not drones. Each of us have an individual journey of faith and must respect each other for our different view points. I don't know where I'm supposed to go but I look forward to the journey. For those that have lied to me or done wrong to me...I have forgiven and pray for the same courtesy as I rehabilitate myself out of a monster.

Peace and Blessings

Nobody cares about this stuff.

Anyway, when are we going to get together and go to a show? Just saw My Bloody Valentine at the late show in Santa Monica. And tonight, my wife and I are going to see Sigur Ros at the Greek. Leaving from work, going to do youth baptisms at 4:45, then Sigur Ros show at 8PM.

Anthesian · 10-02-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Nobody cares about this stuff.

Anyway, when are we going to get together and go to a show? Just saw My Bloody Valentine at the late show in Santa Monica. And tonight, my wife and I are going to see Sigur Ros at the Greek. Leaving from work, going to do youth baptisms at 4:45, then Sigur Ros show at 8PM.

Someone else asked. I responded...even if I went a little overboard. :wink:

10-02-2008, 02:15 PM	#1
Anthesian Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Mesa, 2nd Utah County, AZ Posts: 77	The Sacrament of Doubt "Doubt and faith are twin offspring of genuine spirituality. True spirituality is a free mind that practices irony and compassion. Without doubt, faith hardens into arrogance. Without doubt, we cannot doubt ourselves, our assumptions, aspirations, expectations and predispositions. Without self-doubt, we cannot question our righteousness; we cannot repent; we cannot forgive. Without doubt, we cannot tolerate the unfamiliar. Without doubt, we cannot criticize the power structures that serve us and afflict others. "Perhaps faith is to give God the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps doubt is to restrain the narcissism of certainty. For me, the bread of doubt is as sacred as the water of faith. Together the form a Eucharist of hope, a wellspring of charity--a love that is neither partial nor sentimental, but simply the heart's desire that God's love fall like rain in equal measure upon the just and the unjust, that no one claim a blessing one would withhold from another or impose a burden one would not bear oneself." Paul James Toscano "The Sacrament of Doubt" This is a wonderful message of unconventional orthodoxy.

10-02-2008, 02:57 PM	#2
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Hey Anthesian. I see you are back and I really liked that FP statement from the RLDS church that you posted today. But I have to ask, have you decided on a persona this time around? Active gay LDS? Former RLDS? Or something new? __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

10-02-2008, 03:07 PM	#4
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	This is a signature statement of apostates. They have good thoughts, but they always end up taking it too far. Doubt obviously plays a role in faith, and I like his comparison ... until he starts using the terms Eucharist and sacrament. Heh. Too far. __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

10-02-2008, 03:06 PM	#3
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	I'm curious about the repeated Toscano citations.