The Church on the Wrong Side of History Again

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

Shouldn't it be against the law for stupid people to get married? What's more harmful to society - two well-dressed men getting married and settling down, or two idiots tying the knot and cranking out any number of additional idiots? You should have to pass a harder test to get married than the one we currently have. Essentially, there are but two questions: "How old are you?" and "Is that your sister?" Hell, you could pass this test just by guessing.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10798657

Kirby is pretty funny. I talked to him a few times growing up -- he lived a few blocks away and he wasn't very funny in real life. I never would have guessed that he was such a funny writer by talking to him.

I heard today that our Stake Pres is calling some individual members of our Stake and asking for donations to support Prop. 8. Since when do Texans care what happens in such a comparably insignificant state like California?

Funny how some members have such a difficult time taking the Church leaders at their word when they express tolerance for mild and respectful dissent within the ranks. Most of said members are current or future Bishops and Stake Presidents.

[hyrum]

Originally Posted by Gidget

Please someone respond to me I am going insane!!!

Well, if hindsight is 20-20, where would you have been on the civil rights movement in the 1960s? What would you have been thinking while the leadership blantantly discriminated against people of color for 14 years after the civil rights act of 1964 was passed? Spencer Kimball was quoted as saying the leadership prayed about it every night -- assuming this started around the time of the passage of the civil rights act, it means you believe the LDS prophets and GAs prayed for 5000 nights before they got the right answer from God? So why sweat any disagreement with LDS leaders on social issues.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by hyrum

Well, if hindsight is 20-20, where would you have been on the civil rights movement in the 1960s? What would you have been thinking while the leadership blantantly discriminated against people of color for 14 years after the civil rights act of 1964 was passed? Spencer Kimball was quoted as saying the leadership prayed about it every night -- assuming this started around the time of the passage of the civil rights act, it means you believe the LDS prophets and GAs prayed for 5000 nights before they got the right answer from God? So why sweat any disagreement with LDS leaders on social issues.

I know there are theologians who advocate religious organizational involvement in sociological movements, but I'm not convinced that's in the best interests of the organizations or its members. The only one which really makes me happy was the defeat of the mx missile system.

The Prop 8 makes me worry about lost political capital for the church.

The Church is not about change, so it is doubtful it will ever be on the cutting edge of any social issue. Because of the harm which will inure to its public image, perhaps silence at all times is in its best interests.

[Gidget]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Because of the harm which will inure to its public image, perhaps silence at all times is in its best interests.

I think I agree with you on this. I guess I am just feeling insecure because it was finally mentioned by the Bish. (per request from the Church) over the pulpit last Sunday and we live in Virginia. I guess I was a little jumbled/shaken - I don't know the right word. But the bottom line is, I don't know how I feel about Prop 8. And because I don't know how I feel, I feel guilt. As if by not contributing to the cause of Prop 8 I am against God or something. THAT is a crappy feeling to have.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Gidget

I think I agree with you on this. I guess I am just feeling insecure because it was finally mentioned by the Bish. (per request from the Church) over the pulpit last Sunday and we live in Virginia. I guess I was a little jumbled/shaken - I don't know the right word. But the bottom line is, I don't know how I feel about Prop 8. And because I don't know how I feel, I feel guilt. As if by not contributing to the cause of Prop 8 I am against God or something. THAT is a crappy feeling to have.

Don't worry, if you ignore it, it will go away, and your conscience won't be as difficult to squelch next time. I have lots of practice at it.

[cougarobgon]

Originally Posted by Gidget

I think I agree with you on this. I guess I am just feeling insecure because it was finally mentioned by the Bish. (per request from the Church) over the pulpit last Sunday and we live in Virginia. I guess I was a little jumbled/shaken - I don't know the right word. But the bottom line is, I don't know how I feel about Prop 8. And because I don't know how I feel, I feel guilt. As if by not contributing to the cause of Prop 8 I am against God or something. THAT is a crappy feeling to have.

D&C 9:8 "But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right."

If I were a CA resident, I would support and vote for prop 8. I believe it is the right thing to do.

[SoCalCoug]

So, I made phone calls tonight. Fortunately, I didn't have to try to convince anyone to vote for Prop 8.

A business owner in our ward has been letting us use the 50-60 phones he has in his office to make phone calls 2-3 times a week. A guy near me rolled over to my cubicle after he made a phone call. He apparently made the statement that's on the script about how registered domestic partners have the same rights under California law that married people do. The person on the phone told him they don't have the same federal tax benefits. He asked me how to respond to that. I told him it's true. The script is technically true, but misleading. Unfortunately for the church, well-informed people won't fall for the points of the script. Fortunately for the church, there aren't tons of well-informed people on those issues.

Our stake is passing out 150,000 door hangars on Saturday. Of course we're doing it - my mother-in-law is one of the ward Prop. 8 coordinators. Yay!!

[Jim Swarthout]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Fortunately for the church, there aren't tons of well-informed people on those issues.

The Prop 8 Campaign and the church know that most voters aren't well informed on this issue. That's why the ad campaigns from the pro Prop 8 camp are so despicable. It's embarrassing that the church is part of a campaign spreading lies and preying on fear.

[Jennerstein]

Originally Posted by creekster

I think many here have had to look very carerully at this issue and have navigated throught the maze using their own bearings. It is a complicated set of issues and I do not think there are easy answers. Do not mistake resolute action for unreasoned decision-making.

I agree with what creekster is saying, but wanted to clarify that I think, for those of faith, navigating also requires a decent amount of soul searching, prayer, and spiritual confirmation. For a issue such as this that has political, social, and moral ramifications, avoiding that spiritual component of ourselves would be completely contradictory to the essence of being Mormon.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

Kirby is pretty funny. I talked to him a few times growing up -- he lived a few blocks away and he wasn't very funny in real life. I never would have guessed that he was such a funny writer by talking to him.

I think we're from the same neighborhood. Kirby was in my ward, although he's older than I am. His parents were still living there when I was a teenager.