Truman and JFK did what, that has

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Don't forget his desire to push the USA to the forefront of the space race. We were lagging behind the Soviets. Kennedy had the vision of landing on the moon.

Yes. Add that.

[MikeWaters]

Kennedy had the vision of miring us in a war that we would eventually lose.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Kennedy had the vision of miring us in a war that we would eventually lose.

Kennedy gets about 10% of the blame for Vietnam, Johnson and Nixon the rest. That is a demerit on his side of the ledger, but not enough to make him a bad president considering his achievements. I'm no sure anyone really calls him a "great" president. There is a widely acknowledged mystique.

Truman also gets demerits for North Korea and some domestic programs and activities. He is still a great president on his overall record.

I forgot to mention Trumen preserved citizen/democratic control of the military when he took McCarthur on and fired him for insubordination.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Truman: NATO, The Marshall Plan, reconstruction of Japan, Israel, the Berlin Airlift, H&N, Communist containment. In sum, the defeat of Communism; Reagan executed his plan.

Is that enough for you? Why don't you try being a little bit curious about history instead of just repeating shibboleths.

As for JFK, he was only president a short time. But he contributed the 1964 Civil Rights Act (it was an immense collaberation between his administration and Congress), successful end to the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Peace Corps, and an ethic of implacable anti-Communism that it took Reagan to restore following Nixon/Kissinger's pacifism and defeatism. Not a bad legacy for a two-year stint I'd say.

do you guys who think you are smart think your intelligence put downs really affect me. Try being a little bit curious about history. Does that mean if I got real curious I could be as smart and well informed as you. You spew out much, however oftimes make very little sense. It renders your intelligence somewhat useless.

I saw the two hour documentary on Truman. IMHO, low IQ as it may be, the current historians heap more praise on dear ole Harry than he deserves.

As for Kennedy, I lived those years. If Kennedy hadn't appeared so weak, as Obama will when he gets in, there wouldn't have been a Cuban Missle Crisis. Perhaps if you didn't think you were f'en smarter than people in Utah, you might have picked up on that.

I still maintain if Truman had been a republican, he wouldn't be treated as favorably when it comes to his accomplishments.

Oh, I can't tell you how excited I am we got to the moon. The cheese they brought back has been unbelievable.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Kennedy gets about 10% of the blame for Vietnam, Johnson and Nixon the rest. That is a demerit on his side of the ledger, but not enough to make him a bad president considering his achievements. I'm no sure anyone really calls him a "great" president. There is a widely acknowledged mystique.

Truman also gets demerits for North Korea and some domestic programs and activities. He is still a great president on his overall record.

I forgot to mention Trumen preserved citizen/democratic control of the military when he took McCarthur on and fired him for insubordination.

Rumsfield preserved citizen control over the military and has been blasted for it. That debate should be on whether it was the right thing to do, not he preserved the right to do it. I don't think anyone suggested McCarthur was planning a military coup.

[SeattleUte]

I know. Mormons of my parents' generation all hated Truman. It's old news. I guess I'm a self-hating Mormon because I say he was a great president.

[MikeWaters]

“I am sorry, gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism: I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents.” --Harry S. Truman

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I know. Mormons of my parents' generation all hated Truman. It's old news. I guess I'm a self-hating Mormon because I say he was a great president.

Interesting my parents and my parents parents loved Truman. I grew up believing Truman and FDR saved the world. I loved JFK. I was in High School when Camelot was going on.

Only as I have read and watched documentaries have I come to the conclusion they weren't quite as great as I had been told. Although, they weren't liberals either.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Interesting my parents and my parents parents loved Truman. I grew up believing Truman and FDR saved the world. I loved JFK. I was in High School when Camelot was going on.

Only as I have read and watched documentaries have I come to the conclusion they weren't quite as great as I had been told. Although, they weren't liberals either.

To be fair, you have to contextualize their opinions.

Dropping THE bomb changed the world, changed warfare, changed politics, changed everything. That is a very significant act.

Also, Kennedy facing the Russians was a very big deal at the time. The country was paranoid over Communism and we were not the established lone superpower. It was a huge, memorable deal for them.

It is harder to make the same impact today because we are the lone superpower.

[SeattleUte]

BYU71, you're the one who came here saying you can't think of a single reason people call Truman or Kennedy good or great presidents. So don't get your back up when we get all condescending and treat you like an idiot.