BYU Sports/Missionary Tool Rant - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

OrangeUte · 06-13-2008, 09:47 PM

just a rant:

I stumbled across this blog article while in a pissy mood that my tithing money actually goes to fund BYU tuition, and immediately got into a pissy mood that there are still really people who believe that BYU sports are a missionary tool. I have lived out of the Mormon Bubble and in the mission field for quite a few years, and can absolutely tell you that I have never seen an incident of conversion that had anything to do with BYU athletics or athletes associated with BYU athletics.

There may be some good will or PR to the church from BYU's sports programs, but that is not a missionary tool in the sense that it brings in new converts or has anything to do with the holy ghost bearing witness. I have a hard time buying it when people say that BYU sports is a missionary tool. It is not, in my opinion.

so, poll!

http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/200...f-tithing.html

Tex · 06-13-2008, 09:53 PM

First off, tithing money is not used to support sports (so far as I know). I know for a fact the money for the new indoor sports facility was raised entirely external to church donations. So you can take that chip off your shoulder.

As to a missionary tool ... that's really a loaded phrase. Does the football team convey the messages of the Book of Mormon? Certainly not. Does it open doors to hearing the gospel that might otherwise be closed. Hard to see how it doesn't.

BYU sports do not exist as an arm of missionary work. Thus I reject the idea that LDS athletes should "serve their missions" as a player on their respective team (blasphemy, I know). Nor do I think that active LDS members are obligated to cheer for BYU simply because it's an extension of their church.

Nonetheless, the team represents the school, and the school represents the church--so I think a certain amount of deference to its role in that regard is ok. Thus I have no problem with firesides in away game cities, devotionals at practice, and the like. It's part of being a team at a religious school. If that's your beef: get over it.

Indy Coug · 06-13-2008, 09:54 PM

A guy in my branch helped with the conversion of Eddie Sampson, BYU DB. It sure seemed to be a missionary tool for him.

creekster · 06-13-2008, 10:00 PM

By your apparent standard, nothing except a testimony wiht the spriti would be a missionary tool. BYU sports is a missionary tool like the MoTab, like the osmonds (maybe even better than some of the Osmonds) like Mr. Krueger's Christmas (without the heart warming score) and so forth. If it gives the church PR, then it makes it a little more likely that someone will sit still and listen to the miossionaries who, if they have avoided cougarguard beofre their missions, might be able to testify with the spirit and persuade the 'gator to convert.

All-American · 06-13-2008, 10:03 PM

The BYU trainer was the first counselor in my sophomore year Singles Ward. We toured the athletic facilities one day as a ward activity, and he said that the sentiment from those higher on the food chain was that if BYU athletics ceased to function as a missionary arm, they would scrap athletics.

Take that for what it's worth.

Goatnapper'96 · 06-13-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

just a rant:

I stumbled across this blog article while in a pissy mood that my tithing money actually goes to fund BYU tuition, and immediately got into a pissy mood that there are still really people who believe that BYU sports are a missionary tool. I have lived out of the Mormon Bubble and in the mission field for quite a few years, and can absolutely tell you that I have never seen an incident of conversion that had anything to do with BYU athletics or athletes associated with BYU athletics.

There may be some good will or PR to the church from BYU's sports programs, but that is not a missionary tool in the sense that it brings in new converts or has anything to do with the holy ghost bearing witness. I have a hard time buying it when people say that BYU sports is a missionary tool. It is not, in my opinion.

so, poll!

http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/200...f-tithing.html

Orange, you are too smart a guy to get caught in the mormon binary world view trap. BYU sports can and does bring pr to the LDS Church. Some good, some bad. It lets the world know that we are not entirely a group of freaks but that we make some effort to be normal. Such exposure allows others a more positive interpretation of mormons instead of instantly affiliating the LDS Church with YFZ Ranch. It is possible for you to still intensely dislike BYU sports and still be a faithful mormon. It isn't neccesary to convince yourself it is evil, or not a crucial aspect of the Kingdom of God some want it to be, so that you can effectively deal with you poignant case of cognitive dissonance.

Saying that it's best service is for the University. Having sports makes running a secular or pseudo secular religious academy much easier. Sports is a big part of student life at US Unviersities or even Academy's. Sports connect alumni back to the school and incent donations.

jay santos · 06-13-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Orange, you are too smart a guy to get caught in the mormon binary world view trap. BYU sports can and does bring pr to the LDS Church. Some good, some bad. It lets the world know that we are not entirely a group of freaks but that we make some effort to be normal. Such exposure allows others a more positive interpretation of mormons instead of instantly affiliating the LDS Church with YFZ Ranch. It is possible for you to still intensely dislike BYU sports and still be a faithful mormon. It isn't neccesary to convince yourself it is evil, or not a crucial aspect of the Kingdom of God some want it to be, so that you can effectively deal with you poignant case of cognitive dissonance.

Saying that it's best service is for the University. Having sports makes running a secular or pseudo secular religious academy much easier. Sports is a big part of student life at US Unviersities or even Academy's. Sports connect alumni back to the school and incent donations.

You're too easy on the ALUF. You're pussing out on us Goat.

il Padrino Ute · 06-13-2008, 10:29 PM

Jay, unlike you, Goat really doesn't believe God endorses BYU athletics.

Just thought you ought to know.

YOhio · 06-13-2008, 10:32 PM

Watching BYU football games at the chapel was a tool in fellowshipping my FIL from inactivity.

I also had a co-worker ask me why Chad Lewis was pestering Chinese people about BYU.

YOhio · 06-13-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Jay, unlike you, Goat really doesn't believe God endorses BYU athletics.

Just thought you ought to know.

This post was in violation of our earlier agreement that you would refrain from discussing BYU athletics.

View Poll Results: BYU sports - a missionary tool, a PR tool, or neither or both?
Missionary Tool	1	3.57%
PR Tool	4	14.29%
Neither	6	21.43%
Both	17	60.71%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

06-13-2008, 09:47 PM	#1
OrangeUte Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 748	BYU Sports/Missionary Tool Rant just a rant: I stumbled across this blog article while in a pissy mood that my tithing money actually goes to fund BYU tuition, and immediately got into a pissy mood that there are still really people who believe that BYU sports are a missionary tool. I have lived out of the Mormon Bubble and in the mission field for quite a few years, and can absolutely tell you that I have never seen an incident of conversion that had anything to do with BYU athletics or athletes associated with BYU athletics. There may be some good will or PR to the church from BYU's sports programs, but that is not a missionary tool in the sense that it brings in new converts or has anything to do with the holy ghost bearing witness. I have a hard time buying it when people say that BYU sports is a missionary tool. It is not, in my opinion. so, poll! http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/200...f-tithing.html

06-13-2008, 09:53 PM	#2
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	First off, tithing money is not used to support sports (so far as I know). I know for a fact the money for the new indoor sports facility was raised entirely external to church donations. So you can take that chip off your shoulder. As to a missionary tool ... that's really a loaded phrase. Does the football team convey the messages of the Book of Mormon? Certainly not. Does it open doors to hearing the gospel that might otherwise be closed. Hard to see how it doesn't. BYU sports do not exist as an arm of missionary work. Thus I reject the idea that LDS athletes should "serve their missions" as a player on their respective team (blasphemy, I know). Nor do I think that active LDS members are obligated to cheer for BYU simply because it's an extension of their church. Nonetheless, the team represents the school, and the school represents the church--so I think a certain amount of deference to its role in that regard is ok. Thus I have no problem with firesides in away game cities, devotionals at practice, and the like. It's part of being a team at a religious school. If that's your beef: get over it. Last edited by Tex; 06-13-2008 at 09:55 PM.

06-13-2008, 10:00 PM	#4
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	By your apparent standard, nothing except a testimony wiht the spriti would be a missionary tool. BYU sports is a missionary tool like the MoTab, like the osmonds (maybe even better than some of the Osmonds) like Mr. Krueger's Christmas (without the heart warming score) and so forth. If it gives the church PR, then it makes it a little more likely that someone will sit still and listen to the miossionaries who, if they have avoided cougarguard beofre their missions, might be able to testify with the spirit and persuade the 'gator to convert. __________________ Sorry for th e tpyos.

06-13-2008, 10:03 PM	#5
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	The BYU trainer was the first counselor in my sophomore year Singles Ward. We toured the athletic facilities one day as a ward activity, and he said that the sentiment from those higher on the food chain was that if BYU athletics ceased to function as a missionary arm, they would scrap athletics. Take that for what it's worth. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

06-13-2008, 09:54 PM	#3
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	A guy in my branch helped with the conversion of Eddie Sampson, BYU DB. It sure seemed to be a missionary tool for him.

06-13-2008, 10:29 PM	#8
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	Jay, unlike you, Goat really doesn't believe God endorses BYU athletics. Just thought you ought to know. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

06-13-2008, 10:32 PM	#9
YOhio AKA SeattleNewt Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 7,055	Watching BYU football games at the chapel was a tool in fellowshipping my FIL from inactivity. I also had a co-worker ask me why Chad Lewis was pestering Chinese people about BYU.