Beck talk

[jay santos]

Here it is.

http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/d...775-27,00.html

Which parts do you think were offensive? She actually never really even tells women to stay at home.

My analysis of the controversial parts:

Mothers who know desire to bear children. Whereas in many cultures in the world children are "becoming less valued,"2 in the culture of the gospel we still believe in having children.

I like this. I would love to have this emphasized every conference.

I have visited sacrament meetings in some of the poorest places on the earth where mothers have dressed with great care in their Sunday best despite walking for miles on dusty streets and using worn-out public transportation. They bring daughters in clean and ironed dresses with hair brushed to perfection; their sons wear white shirts and ties and have missionary haircuts. These mothers know they are going to sacrament meeting, where covenants are renewed.

The bolded sentence might be a little over-the-top. But I still like it. She's complimenting the mothers in third world countries that are making a sacrifice to come to church and get their kids dressed up best they can. It's not an indictment on those who don't. I'm sure there are moms with teenage boys that come to church with Beatles hair and a colored shirt that were offended by this, but I don't think they need to be.

Mothers who know are nurturers. This is their special assignment and role under the plan of happiness.5 To nurture means to cultivate, care for, and make grow. Therefore, mothers who know create a climate for spiritual and temporal growth in their homes.

I thought this was great and shouldn't offend anyone.

Another word for nurturing is homemaking. Homemaking includes cooking, washing clothes and dishes, and keeping an orderly home. Home is where women have the most power and influence; therefore, Latter-day Saint women should be the best homemakers in the world.

This is probably the part that could have been left out. It's probably possible for a Mormon mother to be the most perfect Mormon mom that's ever walked the face of the earth and never cook, clean, or do laundry. And at a minimum, if a Mormon mother struggles with some of those areas, it doesn't mean they're not a good nurturer. My wife just blew this part off, but I can see this offending people. It offended people I know are good Mormon moms. I don't mind putting a high standard out there, such as LDS youth should be most chaste. Or LDS as a group should have most scripture knowledge, whatever. But the high standard in an area of cooking and cleaning is lame, I agree with the critics on that.

Working beside children in homemaking tasks creates opportunities to teach and model qualities children should emulate.

I like this. Teaching children to work is one of most important jobs as a parent and working together does that + creates quality together time.

Nurturing mothers are knowledgeable, but all the education women attain will avail them nothing if they do not have the skill to make a home that creates a climate for spiritual growth. Growth happens best in a "house of order," and women should pattern their homes after the Lord's house (see D&C 109). Nurturing requires organization, patience, love, and work. Helping growth occur through nurturing is truly a powerful and influential role bestowed on women.

I like this. The emphasis is on nurturing and creating home for spiritual growth. Very important concept and should receive a mother's best efforts. The education line is a little problematic. It's similar to the success in the world doesn't make up for failure in the home line, which applies to mothers and fathers. But education is a weird comparison. Would have been better to say "success or achievement outside the home" and leave it general.

Mothers who know build children into future leaders and are the primary examples of what leaders look like. They do not abandon their plan by succumbing to social pressure and worldly models of parenting. These wise mothers who know are selective about their own activities and involvement to conserve their limited strength in order to maximize their influence where it matters most.

Excellent, IMHO. Only a vague reference to working outside the home. Certainly not a THOU SHALT NOT. It's the principle that matters and she stated it.

A well-taught friend told me that he did not learn anything at church that he had not already learned at home. His parents used family scripture study, prayer, family home evening, mealtimes, and other gatherings to teach. Think of the power of our future missionary force if mothers considered their homes as a pre–missionary training center. Then the doctrines of the gospel taught in the MTC would be a review and not a revelation. That is influence; that is power.

Pretty innocuous and certainly inoffensive. She's not telling us the home is an MTC and things not fit for the MTC are not fit at home, she's just saying the home is the first place children are taught the gospel and trained to be servants in the Kingdom.

What people might be missing was how she built up mothers and the importance of the role.

My wife has been talking to other women, sisters friends, and this talk has come up a lot, some liked it and some didn't. She feels like it's the same issue with Mother's Day. Some great Mormon women have a guilt complex that's so large they can't enjoy Mother's Day because they have rabbit ears and look for something in the talks that shows they're not measuring up and then go into a pity party about it. That comes across calloused but it's not meant as an attack. Just an observation with a feeling of wanting to help the situation and help these mothers feel good about themselves while at the same time be able to acknowledge the importance of the role and examples of success.

[Indy Coug]

I'd be interested in a similarly detailed critique from Requiem.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I'd be interested in a similarly detailed critique from Requiem.

As would I. I'm glad the text of the talks comes out so quickly nowadays. Makes it easier to debunk what people "thought" she said vs. what she actually did say.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

As would I. I'm glad the text of the talks comes out so quickly nowadays. Makes it easier to debunk what people "thought" she said vs. what she actually did say.

No kidding. Now that I've seen her talk in print, I've realized that it was as bad or worse than people claimed.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Pretty interesting article in the SLTRIB about the talk:

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_7150554

[Flystripper]

while listening to




I was reminded of

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

while listening to




I was reminded of

Hilarious.

Good thing she's not a GA, so she's fair game.

[Venkman]

First time I've read the talk - pretty good one, I'd say. Good analysis Jay.

I think that the early invocation of ETB telling women to not delay children, probably rubbed some the wrong way and colored how they heard the rest of the talk. And I do have somewhat of a problem with the counsel to not delay children, given that many LDS women are still in school and they're also counseled to get an education. I think there are certainly unrighteous motives for postponing children, but I don't think education is one of them.

I agree she could have done without saying cooking, cleaning, dishes, etc. Seems to imply that men get a pass on that stuff. On second thought, I liked that part.

So on balance, I really liked the talk, and I think there has been some overreaction.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

No kidding. Now that I've seen her talk in print, I've realized that it was as bad or worse than people claimed.

Originally Posted by jay santos

Which parts do you think were offensive?

....

[SoonerCoug]

Is it a problem in Mormonism that women don't do enough around the house? I doubt it.

Is it a problem that men don't help out enough around the house? I'd say so.

Her major, controversial points could only cause harm, and they don't address a real problem.

I think she had no idea that the things she was saying would be controversial. I think she's been in a bubble far too long.