Predict the allocation of humanity to the 3 degrees

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Brian

Well, only you are perfect, so everyone but you.

So thinking that greater than 0% will end up in the telestial kingdom means I think I'm perfect?

Gee, that's not judgmental.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Tex

So thinking that greater than 0% will end up in the telestial kingdom means I think I'm perfect?

Gee, that's not judgmental.

No. Re-read what you said:
'We are all "liars, thieves, murders, adulterers" eh? Heh.'

Yes, everyone is. Except the perfect ones.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Brian

The more I learn about people, meet people, learn about their lives, their experiences, the less and less I believe that life is a test. I don't think God is that evil. Life is an experience. God made up an individual itinerary for everyone. Everyone needed something different, so everyone got something different. How else do we reconcile what we see here on earth? The idea that I was better in heaven and was sent to a middle class mormon family in the US and some starving kid in Africa was evil is just sickening. God isn't an asshole. Everyone's itinerary is exactly what is needed to perfect them. God is a nice guy. He likes us. We're all supposed to screw up, majorly, very majorly. It's all about experience.

I think life is a test, but there is a different answer key for everyone. We will be judged based on how we responded to our given "itenerary" as you put it. There is no way a just God could hold that starving kid in Africa to the same standard as you (Mormon middle class family in your own words). But that doesn't mean we won't all be judged. Where much is given, much is required has a corollary. Where little is given, little is required. I firmly believe that.

Take me for example. Some of you know I grew up in foster care and then a children's home. My life was figuratively (if not literally) "saved" by a retruned missionary houseparent at the home where I lived who introduced me to the gospel. I also had the benefit of a saintly Christian grandmother who was a powerful influence in my life from the very earliest years (she was the one who talked me into going on a mission and paid for it for example). Not the best childhood for sure, BUT, I did join the church when I was 15, went on a mission, married in the temple, etc. There is no question in my mind I will be held to a much higher standard than my peers at the home where I grew up who did not have those influences or perhaps someone from a similar background who joined the church at say age 35 and didn't have those opportunities at such a young age. And I imagine there are those where even more was given (LDS family, etc.) who will be held to a higher standard than I will.

Mullahs tend to be really into justice and say things like "well yes God is merciful but he is also just". Flip that on its head and tell me how God could be considered just if that starving kid in Africa is held to the same standard as the son of an Apostle.

Justice requires that we be graded on a curve.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Brian

No. Re-read what you said:
'We are all "liars, thieves, murders, adulterers" eh? Heh.'

Yes, everyone is. Except the perfect ones.

All have sinned and fall short of glory of God. That doesn't make all of us liars, theives, murderers, adulterers, or telestial-glory-bound.

The bottom line is, we can't do the math to Indy's question because we do not have all the variables nor equations, and forgive me if I harrumph a little at those who think they can.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

All have sinned and fall short of glory of God. That doesn't make all of us liars, theives, murderers, adulterers, or telestial-glory-bound.

The bottom line is, we can't do the math to Indy's question because we do not have all the variables nor equations, and forgive me if I harrumph a little at those who think they can.

You have never told a lie, stolen something or cheated someone of something, murdered, or committed adultery? I'll never criticize your view on religion ever again if you can answer no to that. And if you can't answer no, then yes by definition that makes you part of the group of people titled liars, thieves, murderers, and adulterers and by your account telestial glory bound. Sucks to be you, I still am hoping for a shot at celestial, though I'm in that group, too.

Also, you took the liberty to make fun of my post laying out the percentages, so you should have the guts to throw out your percentages.

Let me guess .5 (ten virgin parable) * total members of the church = celestial kingdom or <1%?

[JohnnyLingo]

Santos, assuming you aren't being facetious about your 100% comment, what about agency?

There are plenty of people who don't WANT to go to the highest level of the CK. Plenty of people who would be just fine with living in the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms.

Will God force them to become like Him if they aren't willing to change?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

You have never told a lie, stolen something or cheated someone of something, murdered, or committed adultery? I'll never criticize your view on religion ever again if you can answer no to that. And if you can't answer no, then yes by definition that makes you part of the group of people titled liars, thieves, murderers, and adulterers and by your account telestial glory bound. Sucks to be you, I still am hoping for a shot at celestial, though I'm in that group, too.

I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between the terrestrial and telestial glories.

Originally Posted by jay santos

Also, you took the liberty to make fun of my post laying out the percentages, so you should have the guts to throw out your percentages.

The reason I "made fun" was because I think percentages are impossible to lay out.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...7&postcount=16

Why don't you "take the liberty" of marrying your guesses with the aforementioned scriptures?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Santos, assuming you aren't being facetious about your 100% comment, what about agency?

There are plenty of people who don't WANT to go to the highest level of the CK. Plenty of people who would be just fine with living in the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms.

Will God force them to become like Him if they aren't willing to change?

How do you know that?

[Brian]

Good thoughts.

Originally Posted by FMCoug

I think life is a test, but there is a different answer key for everyone. We will be judged based on how we responded to our given "itenerary" as you put it. There is no way a just God could hold that starving kid in Africa to the same standard as you (Mormon middle class family in your own words). But that doesn't mean we won't all be judged. Where much is given, much is required has a corollary. Where little is given, little is required. I firmly believe that.

Do we know how "much" and "little" are defined? I probably assume I know what that means (economic, family, religious, etc situation). But as complicated as this world is, (imagine how many variables, what kind of equations would it take to model this earth) it's probably impossible to really know.

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Take me for example. Some of you know I grew up in foster care and then a children's home. My life was figuratively (if not literally) "saved" by a retruned missionary houseparent at the home where I lived who introduced me to the gospel. I also had the benefit of a saintly Christian grandmother who was a powerful influence in my life from the very earliest years (she was the one who talked me into going on a mission and paid for it for example). Not the best childhood for sure, BUT, I did join the church when I was 15, went on a mission, married in the temple, etc. There is no question in my mind I will be held to a much higher standard than my peers at the home where I grew up who did not have those influences or perhaps someone from a similar background who joined the church at say age 35 and didn't have those opportunities at such a young age. And I imagine there are those where even more was given (LDS family, etc.) who will be held to a higher standard than I will.

Mullahs tend to be really into justice and say things like "well yes God is merciful but he is also just". Flip that on its head and tell me how God could be considered just if that starving kid in Africa is held to the same standard as the son of an Apostle.

Justice requires that we be graded on a curve.

As to being held to a higher standard, I don't know. That assumes that one experience is not equivalent to another. Who is to say there are not critical lessons to be learned from experiencing failure, failure due to lack of initiative, not seizing the day, being lazy, etc.
I think god knows exactly what he's doing. One day it will all make sense.
I was driving out to the where we keep the horses this afternoon and I saw the same bum that I see every day, in the same place, walking down the road. And it made me wonder what lessons are in his itinerary. An itinerary much different than mine, but equally crafted with love by a god who loves us both equally.

I think we're graded on a curve as well, but I don't think it's a gaussian. I think it's y=1.

Fascinating topic.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Tex

All have sinned and fall short of glory of God. That doesn't make all of us liars, theives, murderers, adulterers, or telestial-glory-bound.

The bottom line is, we can't do the math to Indy's question because we do not have all the variables nor equations, and forgive me if I harrumph a little at those who think they can.

Well, depending on how you define 'lying', most people lie constantly.
Note: I said 'most' as to exclude a few.