My opinion on the change in the honor code

[DrumNFeather]

My opinion on the honor code has pretty much stayed the same. I don't particularly care what it falls in line with. If you sign it and say you'll live by the standards, then don't be surprised if you are kicked out when you don't.

I lived in Provo for a couple of years while attending UVSC and never understood why people worked so hard to get into BYU only to get there and bitch about the honor code.

When I was at Ricks, President Bednar at the time basically got up at devotional and said, "I've heard a lot of complaining about our honor code. If you don't feel you can live it, there are plenty of other places to go to school that you can have a good experience at." In other words, if you don't like it, leave.

Should we use it as something to drive people away? Certainly not, but people who go to school at places that have an honor code and willingly choose to sign it, should live by it, or face the consequences. There are enough people that want to go to BYU that those that don't want to be there because of the honor code would not be missed.

[MikeWaters]

I don't get the "if you come to BYU you have no right to advocate for change."

Having attended BYU, I know BYU is supremely uninterested in my opinions.

If you aren't interested in my opinion, please don't be interested in my money.

I'm happy to donate to the Perpetual Education Fund, however.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't get the "if you come to BYU you have no right to advocate for change."

Having attended BYU, I know BYU is supremely uninterested in my opinions.

If you aren't interested in my opinion, please don't be interested in my money.

I'm happy to donate to the Perpetual Education Fund, however.

Perhaps it is more of a "we know what we're doing better than you know what we're doing". Not saying that is right or wrong, but given who the decision makers are, they probably don't think they need student or faculty input.

[Archaea]

It has also has its roots in the tradition of Ernie Wilkerson, who was paranoid of the Vietnam era protests. One must also remember the Commie paranoia that pervaded the country during the 1950s to understand BYU. These sentiments have never really fully departed froom the administrative folks there.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Perhaps it is more of a "we know what we're doing better than you know what we're doing". Not saying that is right or wrong, but given who the decision makers are, they probably don't think they need student or faculty input.

Yes, there is priestcraft going on. "I'm a priesthood leader therefore my administrative decisions are not to be questioned." Bateman was a master of this.

It's their right to have this attitude. It's my right to say that I don't like it and won't support it.

I'm confident that my view will eventually prevail. But probably 100 years later than it should.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

My opinion on the honor code has pretty much stayed the same. I don't particularly care what it falls in line with. If you sign it and say you'll live by the standards, then don't be surprised if you are kicked out when you don't.

I lived in Provo for a couple of years while attending UVSC and never understood why people worked so hard to get into BYU only to get there and bitch about the honor code.

When I was at Ricks, President Bednar at the time basically got up at devotional and said, "I've heard a lot of complaining about our honor code. If you don't feel you can live it, there are plenty of other places to go to school that you can have a good experience at." In other words, if you don't like it, leave.

Should we use it as something to drive people away? Certainly not, but people who go to school at places that have an honor code and willingly choose to sign it, should live by it, or face the consequences. There are enough people that want to go to BYU that those that don't want to be there because of the honor code would not be missed.

Hmm.... That's a fascinating argument from a Ute fan. But it obfuscates the point. Very few ever argue that if someone signs the honor code then they should not be bound to live by it. It's more useful to debate whether the honor code is ultimately in the best interests of the university and students. And whether it ought to be tweaked.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Yes, there is priestcraft going on. "I'm a priesthood leader therefore my administrative decisions are not to be questioned." Bateman was a master of this.

It's their right to have this attitude. It's my right to say that I don't like it and won't support it.

I'm confident that my view will eventually prevail. But probably 100 years later than it should.

What's interesting is that if you research the history of the honor code, you will learn that it was originally proposed by a group of students back in the 50's (brown-nosers, no doubt). They went on a campaign to promote it and got lots of students across campus to sign it. It eventually got adopted university-wide and has evolved over the years.

So if a group of students got it started, why is there an attitude among some that it cannot be questioned by students?

Personally, I think the honor/dress code is a relic of the 50's. Teach correct principles and let the students conduct their lives in private like every other member of the church. Righteous living should be organic and done for the right reasons, not so that one can avoid getting booted out of school.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

What's interesting is that if you research the history of the honor code, you will learn that it was originally proposed by a group of students back in the 50's (brown-nosers, no doubt). They went on a campaign to promote it and got lots of students across campus to sign it. It eventually got adopted university-wide and has evolved over the years.

So if a group of students got it started, why is there an attitude among some that it cannot be questioned by students?

Personally, I think the honor/dress code is a relic of the 50's. Teach correct principles and let the students conduct their lives in private like every other member of the church. Righteous living should be organic and done for the right reasons, not so that one can avoid getting booted out of school.

Students know before they come to BYU what the standards are. It's not like these rules were foisted upon them midstream.

[RockyBalboa]

I think an honor code in some form is a good thing, however the nazi strict nature of it now and the policing of it is an embarrassment for the University.

People think that Homosexuals are the only ones walking around on egg shells down there. I've known many people who've been in relationships having sex outside of marriage, or to some that appears that others might be and even the appearance of that can send you to the OC Office and get dragged through a lengthy process that is unwarranted all because some A-hole thought or heard that you might've been doing something you shouldn't be...and that makes the person feel like at every turn the Gestapo is out to bust them.

They need to relax the dress standards a lot. Creating a bunch of "I, Robots" isn't and shouldn't be the goal.

They need to let the Bishops of the wards down there do their jobs and take care of the personal needs and situations of the students just like they would in any home ward.

The living standard expectations are already pummeled into their mind all growing up. I don't mind a version of an honor code, but not one that constantly creates a looking over their shoulder type of atmosphere that is prevalent down there.

I've never been a student there, and never would've fit in, because I like to grow my goatees, like to stay out late sometimes and in general am not kosher on a bunch of California punk tranpslants or Utah County-ites acting like they've suddenly been endowed by the swift signing of a over bearing code that turns them into fake peter priesthoods and mollys.

[Indy Coug]

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...html?id=693176