01-16-2008, 02:25 AM | #41 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the far corner of my mind
Posts: 8,711
|
Quote:
I am very sympathetic to your objections (although I would not go so far) especially with the difficulty involved in getting an instructor to handle it well. I would also add that in your average ward I don't think most people even WANT to hear this stuff. The thing that bothers me is that I wish the church would take control and own these issues. I wish thye would put out their own materials to address some of them, even if in a very general way (along the lines of what UtahDan mentioned) to help those people who do wnat to learn more. THe anti's are out there. The non-LDS academics are out there. THe church's absence on the stage is leaving a vacuum that is being filled by those we dislike and who do nto see the gospel as true. I do not think a testimony should be based on this sort of analysis, and I agree that the meetings need to be uplifting, but can't we at least provide some ammo for our own people?
__________________
Sorry for th e tpyos. |
|
01-16-2008, 02:33 AM | #42 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,596
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not sure the vacuum is as large or as empty as folks around here think it is. I think there's some good wisdom in not deigning to respond to the barking dogs everytime they yap (what I should've done with SoCal and Arch, I suppose). We haven't armed our missionaries (our "front line" you might say) with this sort of "ammo" in nearly two centuries and seem to be doing just fine. But again, I'd be supportive of such an effort, so long as it took place outside the thrust of our theology-based curriculum.
__________________
"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
||
01-16-2008, 02:53 AM | #43 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,502
|
Quote:
It also seems as if you're still under the impression that antis are the source of all the facts not included in official church literature. This isn't the case. |
|
01-16-2008, 01:52 PM | #44 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vegas Baby, Vegas.
Posts: 329
|
Quote:
People having personal theophanies was a common occurence back in those days. Man goes into the woods, prays fervently, God appears and tells him his sins are forgiven. It was as common as people being saved in a holy roller meeting. That was the only story Joseph told in the early days; He saw "The Lord" and "The Lord" told him he was forgiven of his sins. No mention of two beings, no mention of false churches, no mention of a divine mission. Joseph filled in the details later when he needed to shore up his authority. Saying he was persecuted in Palmyra for saying he saw God and Jesus never happened. |
|
01-16-2008, 03:04 PM | #45 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Quote:
I find it more believable that his first emphasis upon going into the woods was his own salvation, and how he could get forgiveness. Where do I go? Now this all assumes there could be truth to what Joseph said, if you have come to a conclusion he is a lying sack of crap, then you won't follow. However, he goes and is told your sins are forgiven and don't join. Joseph's relieved and as a fourteen year old, didn't really care about the rest. He doesn't really tell anybody but family for a long time and then goes about growing up. As he learns more about religion and reflects upon it, some of the details become more important. That's equally plausible given what we know.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
|
01-16-2008, 03:05 PM | #46 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Quote:
We are specifically instructed to NOT form small study groups, and SS won't address issues. To expect it all to be delayed until a Know Your Religion series is silly and unrealistic. I agree the manual is a disappointment and the treatment of the First Vision is childish.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
|
01-16-2008, 03:08 PM | #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,596
|
1. Today sets a new mile-marker in my CG experience. I never thought I'd be asked to defend the First Vision's place in the restoration. I really don't feel the need to do this, though. It's as though you've bizarrely asked me to justify calling the sky blue.
2. This is really point #1 redux. 3. As I told Lebowski, testimonies are tried by all sorts of doctrines and events. The key is to build them on eternal matters, not on academic persuasions. Your yammering that the First Vision story is a lie is just plain silly. See point #1. 4. Congrats, you can join SoCal and Arch in remedial reading comprehension. I didn't say context was "not needed". The rest of your rant is a non sequitur, as if Prozac prescriptions are derived from the format of a Sunday School lesson. Quote:
I was thinking of something along the lines of a church-sponsored activity, which I believe is what UtahDan and creekster were advocating as well.
__________________
"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
|
01-16-2008, 03:11 PM | #48 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Quote:
Know Your Religion is not regular and available. There is a need, but there is no regular outlet.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
|
01-16-2008, 03:15 PM | #49 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,596
|
Yes, I've acknowledged that. As I have said more than once, Arch, I'm open to discussion on this. What are some other ideas besides inserting it into the 3-hour block?
__________________
"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
01-16-2008, 03:23 PM | #50 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Quote:
Do we need more meetings? Are people likely to attend them? Although the three hour block is not optimal, it may be the only option. It could also be another Sunday School class. Gospel Essentials, Gospel Worship and Gospel Study.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
|
Bookmarks |
|
|