"Mothers Who Know": the Modern Offense Translation

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by creekster

Let's take sister BEck at her word that this was inspired by God. Do you think this is an example of aninstacne where God inspired a pure and true idea which was executed less perfectly or less effectiverly than it could have been? I think this might happen more often than we realize.

I don't think there is an effective way of communicating what the LDS Church views as the ideal role for women. It is just such a powder keg that I see no method of accomplishing that end without someone being offended. I am not a big fan of Tex, but IMO he has hit this one on the head. People don't like or agree with the current LDS position on the issue so they were going to piss and moan no matter how carefully Sister Beck presented her message. This crap about hurt feelings of those who didn't get last weeks cheerios goo out of Lil Eliza's dress is bullshit. They just don't like the old fashioned role - even if they live that role out of choice.

That said, I see no reason she needs to hide behind an apostle. She should just say take that which you feel is applicable to make your life, home, marital relationship and family relationship better and apply it. And dammit we don't believe felatio is a sin!

Or something like that.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I don't think there is an effective way of communicating what the LDS Church views as the ideal role for women. It is just such a powder keg that I see no method of accomplishing that end without someone being offended. I am not a big fan of Tex, but IMO he has hit this one on the head. People don't like or agree with the current LDS position on the issue so they were going to piss and moan no matter how carefully Sister Beck presented her message. This crap about hurt feelings of those who didn't get last weeks cheerios goo out of Lil Eliza's dress is bullshit. They just don't like the old fashioned role - even if they live that role out of choice.

That said, I see no reason she needs to hide behind an apostle. She should just say take that which you feel is applicable to make your life, home, marital relationship and family relationship better and apply it. And dammit we don't believe felatio is a sin!

Or something like that.

Well, she's not an apostle, so her opinion doesn't matter.

Does anybody listen any more to the RS President any more? Maybe she wanted a Huckabee moment and started planning this for a some sort of sistercraft. [yes I know Huckabee hadn't had his moment when Sister Beck had hers].

The roles of women in the world are in flux and the LDS Church will adjust in due time.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Well, she's not an apostle, so her opinion doesn't matter.

Does anybody listen any more to the RS President any more? Maybe she wanted a Huckabee moment and started planning this for a some sort of sistercraft. [yes I know Huckabee hadn't had his moment when Sister Beck had hers].

The roles of women in the world are in flux and the LDS Church will adjust in due time.

I probably won't be around to see my prediction come true, but I predict in 20-30 years you won't be hearing in conference about women not working.

It will be like one of those issues like the opposition to "birth control" that will slowly fade from the LDS scene. There are people "can't believe" that birth control was once condemned as "evil" from pulpits of the Tabernacle.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Well, she's not an apostle, so her opinion doesn't matter.

Does anybody listen any more to the RS President any more? Maybe she wanted a Huckabee moment and started planning this for a some sort of sistercraft. [yes I know Huckabee hadn't had his moment when Sister Beck had hers].

The roles of women in the world are in flux and the LDS Church will adjust in due time.

Exactly. Here is an older lady who works semi closely with old men. They will continue to espouse that which they genuinely believe in. If you were asked to predict topics of a talk on the role of a mormon woman in LDS General Conference before her talk, I am pretty convinced most of us would have hit every point she hit and even provided the likely scripture references and even a few of us would have predicted that some story from 3rd world sisters who walk to church would be told. She said nothing more than what anyone should expect to be heard at that event. I still think the principles of love, sacrifice and focus on family and home are very relevant to every mother - regardless if they function within the traditional LDS model or not. The whining about her insinuating if your daughter has cheerio goo from last week's battle royale in Sacrament meeting she is telling you that you are a bag of shit and your husband will likely be given a mo better wife in the next life is a bit ridiculous, IMO.

If you don't like the tradition model, attack it if that is your issue. Sister Beck was just the messenger.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by K-dog

Why won't you just admit that some people, apparently a lot of people, could be offended by the tone, style, delivery, and message of the talk without having a personal failing?

What does giving her the benefit of the doubt have to do with it? Are you implicitly admitting that she did something wrong and needed us to "cover" for her by giving her the benefit of the doubt?

The point is, the talk was meant to inspire and uplift. If it (arguably) failed in some remote aspect of that, why not let it slide? Why not assume the best instead of assume the worst? Do you think all this supposed blowback (which in my opinion is much smaller than advertised) is helpful?

No, instead we get a report of some support from the Twelve, and the next thing you know, people are taking shots at them.

You want to know what I honestly think? I believe this is a proxy. This is an excuse for people who are habitually critical of the leadership anyway to pile on. I don't think there are a lot of mothers in mud huts complaining about how Beck denigrated them. Most of the caterwauling is from highly educated members living in the greater Salt Lake area. I'm gonna guess that if you took a survey, you'd find they're the same people who hate the excommunication of the September Six, who protested the "censoring" of the BYU Rodin exhibit, and have two dozen other sore points between them and church leadership.

[YOhio]

Technically speaking, don't all mother's already "know." Unless the kid is adopted or brought forth through alternative means, all mothers have to "know" just to become mothers. So, I think she's being redundant but that's just me.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by K-dog

Why won't you just admit that some people, apparently a lot of people, could be offended by the tone, style, delivery, and message of the talk without having a personal failing?

What does giving her the benefit of the doubt have to do with it? Are you implicitly admitting that she did something wrong and needed us to "cover" for her by giving her the benefit of the doubt?

I love how I'm expected to accept that someone can be offended by something I find inoffensive without having a personal failing when you are not expected to accept that Beck's talk was given without the intent to 'shock' the women of the church, but rather from a position of love, highlighting the righteous actions of individuals as an ideal to strive for.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Technically speaking, don't all mother's already "know." Unless the kid is adopted or brought forth through alternative means, all mothers have to "know" just to become mothers. So, I think she's being redundant but that's just me.

Nice.:mrgreen:

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Technically speaking, don't all mother's already "know." Unless the kid is adopted or brought forth through alternative means, all mothers have to "know" just to become mothers. So, I think she's being redundant but that's just me.

I'll bet you never considered those of us unable to knock up the ol wife the old fashioned way. You should have taken my delicate feelings into consideration before you launch into this sweeping generalization. I am offended.

Shall I inform the board of the experiences, sights and sounds of Goat and the lovely Mrs. Goat's search for posterity?

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Spaz

I love how I'm expected to accept that someone can be offended by something I find inoffensive without having a personal failing when you are not expected to accept that Beck's talk was given without the intent to 'shock' the women of the church, but rather from a position of love, highlighting the righteous actions of individuals as an ideal to strive for.

Just for the sake of discussion, how do you know it came from a position of love.

1) All GA talks come from a position of love

2) She said it came from a position of love

3) When you are right, any advice you give is of course "loving"

4) She is a woman, everything they do is from a position of love


While not offended by her talk, it to me wasn't uplifting, inspiring or loving. Seemed like a talk given from a position of authority.

I know, Indy, I know. Depends on the spirit with which you recieve the words.