Trouble Brewing

[El Paso Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

not in my ward. I was the ES and I never called anyone. And the number of people who attended was low.

In fact, for a couple of years, I was a FTP and I didn't attend.

Additionally it is never made public who attended and who didn't.

I've been in the same ward for 8 years and we have had 3 different Bishops. Every one of them has made sure every active member comes into tithing settlement. If you don't sign up, you get a phone call. Perhaps my ward is stricter than others on this.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by El Paso Coug

I've been in the same ward for 8 years and we have had 3 different Bishops. Every one of them has made sure every active member comes into tithing settlement. If you don't sign up, you get a phone call. Perhaps my ward is stricter than others on this.

ANd these rather marked differences are allowed to occur in a church governed by the detalied procedures in the HOI? Vive la difference.

[El Paso Coug]

Originally Posted by creekster

Then they should pay or not go. At least have the courage of your actions. The bishop never asks how much you pay, he only asks if you are a full tithe payer, part tithe payer or non. There is no shame at all. In my life I have gone to many settlements,sometimes I was paying and sometimes I wasn't and I always told the Bishop the truth and have never felt unduly pressured. into paying.

In fact, the only discomfort I have felt was when I told him I was a non-payor and I knew inside this was not consistent with my true feelings. No shame, no pressure no discomfort and nothign public like the collection plate.

Most people would feel some level of shame to tell their Bishop that they are not a full tithe payer. It's a simple human behavioral principle: If there is a rule that you are supposed to follow, you are much more likely to follow it if you know that you will have to answer to someone and if you haven't followed the rule, there will be consequences (no temple recommend). If the Church did away with tithing settlement, there is no doubt in my mind that the overall amount of tithing paid by members would be less. It's all about accountability and consequences. Tithing settlement goes a long way to ensure both, albeit in a loving environment.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by creekster

Then they should pay or not go. At least have the courage of your actions. The bishop never asks how much you pay, he only asks if you are a full tithe payer, part tithe payer or non. There is no shame at all. In my life I have gone to many settlements,sometimes I was paying and sometimes I wasn't and I always told the Bishop the truth and have never felt unduly pressured. into paying.

In fact, the only discomfort I have felt was when I told him I was a non-payor and I knew inside this was not consistent with my true feelings. No shame, no pressure no discomfort and nothign public like the collection plate.

Exactly. Just don't go if you don't want to. What are they going to do?

As for the handbook, large bureaucracies need regulations. That said, we violate ours with impunity. As cults go, we're not very good at it.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by El Paso Coug

Most people would feel some level of shame to tell their Bishop that they are not a full tithe payer. It's a simple human behavioral principle: If there is a rule that you are supposed to follow, you are much more likely to follow it if you know that you will have to answer to someone and if you haven't followed the rule, there will be consequences (no temple recommend). If the Church did away with tithing settlement, there is no doubt in my mind that the overall amount of tithing paid by members would be less. It's all about accountability and consequences. Tithing settlement goes a long way to ensure both, albeit in a loving environment.

Shame derives from feeling like you are doing something wrong. If you think there is no reason for the rule, then the rule cannot give you shame when violated. I got a speeding ticket th eother day. The speed limit there is ridiculously low. The cop very publicly pulled me over and wrote out a ticket. I felt and feel no shame whatsoever because I think it is a stupid rule. If you bother to go to settlment and you feel shame becasue you are not full payor, then you probabyl believe that you should be paying.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I think this part is despicable. That's not too strong a word. For me the uplifting part of a funeral is a celebration of the deceden't life.

Contrast the micromanagement to the total vacuum the LDS Church has become in terms of doctrine, and the banality of any discussion of its past.

Big Brother. Newspeak, etc.

One of the most unpleasant aspects of my FIL's funeral last summer was the bishop and a counseler reminding us on several occassions that the talks should be gospel oriented. It was as if they were trying to get us to set up missionary appointments with all the non-member attendees. It bothered my wife quite a bit, though she still delivered the greatest funeral talk I've had opportunity to hear.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by YOhio

One of the most unpleasant aspects of my FIL's funeral last summer was the bishop and a counseler reminding us on several occassions that the talks should be gospel oriented. It was as if they were trying to get us to set up missionary appointments with all the non-member attendees. It bothered my wife quite a bit, though she still delivered the greatest funeral talk I've had opportunity to hear.

There's nothing more moving than a great funeral oration presenting the decedent's life like a work of art. Like brides are always beautiful (I really believe that old saying; I've seen many a plain woman look magazine beautiful on her wedding day) those who speak at funerals about loved ones seem to really rise to the occasion, they soar.

[Sleeping in EQ]

The counsel on having funeral talks not dwell on the deceased is ill conceived.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

The counsel on having funeral talks not dwell on the deceased is ill conceived.

I think you're putting it too mildly.

[RC Vikings]

Tithing settlement, ppi's and Saturday evening stake conference. These three just seem so unnecessary to me I won't go.