Monson: Gay Marriage Fight in CA 'Is Our Gettysburg'

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

I looked at that protectmarriage.com site - we've seen it before, and it's a joke. This time I clicked on the "Read More" link for point # 3 about how in countries where same-sex marriage is legalized, there has been an increase in out-of-wedlock births, and it led to this: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/F...rong_direction

Frankly, it's embarrassing that the church is supporting such a poorly-reasoned and illogical website, as protectmarriage.com. It really is laughable. You would think that since this is such a good cause, they'd be able to come up with something better. It may sway people who don't want to (or can't) put a lot of thought into it, but it's not going to convince intelligent people to support their cause.

I find it amusing that this coalition is arguing, in part, that in Norway, since gays have been allowed to be domestic partners, that heterosexuals have started having more children out of wedlock.

Blame the gays!

If BYU doesn't get a BCS invite this year, I am blaming the gays....and the heterosexuals in Norway.

[ute4ever]

Let's suppose for a moment that President Kimball was not merely giving his personal opinion, but rather was speaking under the spirit when he said the world today (in 1972) was more wicked than at the time of Sodom & Gomorrah, and that rampant homosexuality was the sin that did those cities in.

Forgive me if I am paraphrasing the wrong prophet, but I suspect you all know which famous sayings I am referencing here.

And let's suppose that today, despite the sympathy many of us feel for those with same-sex attraction, and despite that we feel it is cruel and unusual to "punish" them, let's suppose that the prophets are right and this is the "sin" that would break the camel's back so to speak, and widespread gay legal rights would cause the earth to groan, tempests to flare, and Christ to return, burn the wicked and usher in the new millennium.

Is it wrong of me to look forward to that end result - - and actually hope that the great and terrible day arrives that much sooner?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Let's suppose for a moment that President Kimball was not merely giving his personal opinion, but rather was speaking under the spirit when he said the world today (in 1972) was more wicked than at the time of Sodom & Gomorrah, and that rampant homosexuality was the sin that did those cities in.

Forgive me if I am paraphrasing the wrong prophet, but I suspect you all know which famous sayings I am referencing here.

And let's suppose that today, despite the sympathy many of us feel for those with same-sex attraction, and despite that we feel it is cruel and unusual to "punish" them, let's suppose that the prophets are right and this is the "sin" that would break the camel's back so to speak, and widespread gay legal rights would cause the earth to groan, tempests to flare, and Christ to return, burn the wicked and usher in the new millennium.

Is it wrong of me to look forward to that end result - - and actually hope that the great and terrible day arrives that much sooner?

If that is the case, then the Church's crusade should be against homosexuality, not gay marriage. S&G wasn't destroyed because gays were getting married.

PS You should hope that the end doesnt come until you hook up with at least 2 of the women on those pictures you were posting yesterday.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

If that is the case, then the Church's crusade should be against homosexuality, not gay marriage. S&G wasn't destroyed because gays were getting married.

PS You should hope that the end doesnt come until you hook up with at least 2 of the women on those pictures you were posting yesterday.

Maybe it's not gay marriage, per se, but the societal stamp of approval on it, as would be the case if Prop 8 is defeated.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

Yes. Becasue if it is intended to be ironic and was not sincere, than his whole act here is largely inexcusable. It is a 'brillaince' founded in ridicule and misstatement that he should find embarassing. I think you are working too hard for this.

LOL. Do we know the same MikeWaters? I don't think for a minute he believes his church is really always right. Does intentional irony mean lack of sincerity? I don't think so.

I think Waters has a perfect pitch appreciation for the utter--ineed darkly comic--absurdity of the chasm between Mormons' conviction their church is "always right," and the reality that it is always wrong, and spectacularly so. The thng the Mormon Church does best is dissemble concerning its history of having been wrong about important matters.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Maybe it's not gay marriage, per se, but the societal stamp of approval on it, as would be the case if Prop 8 is defeated.

If Prop 8 is approved it only means that out of those who actually bothered to vote, the majority did not want to specifiy the definition of marriage in a state constitution. I wonder what percent of Californians even bother to vote, in general?

I hope God doesnt punish the entire world because of the result of this election in California. Seems unfair.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

If Prop 8 is approved it only means that out of those who actually bothered to vote, the majority did not want to specifiy the definition of marriage in a state constitution. I wonder what percent of Californians even bother to vote, in general?

I hope God doesnt punish the entire world because of the result of this election in California. Seems unfair.

Well, if He did, it wouldn't be solely because of that, but it could theoretically be the tipping point.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

Brigham Young's July, 1859 interview with the renowned newspaper editor Horace Greeley, makes Brigham's view of slavery pretty clear. I am unaware of any controversy regarding it, other than the SL Trib reprinted it in the early 90s (which is how I first came upon it). From the interview (capitalizations are in original):

H.G.: What is the position of your Church with respect to Slavery?

B.Y.: We consider it of Divine institution, and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his decendants.

H.G.: Are there any slaves now held in this Territory?

B.Y.: There are.

H.G.: Do your Territorial laws uphold Slavery?

B.Y.: Those laws are printed--you can read them for yourself. If slaves are brought here by those who owned them in the states, we do not favor their escape from the service of those owners.

H.G.: Am I to infer that Utah, if admitted as a member of the Federal Union, will be a Slave State?

B.Y.: No; she will be a Free State. Slavery here would prove useless and unprofitable. I regard it generally as a curse to the masters. I myself hire many laborers and pay them fair wages; I could not afford to own them. I can do better than subject myself to an obligation to feed and clothe their families, to provide and care for them, in sickness and health. Utah is not adapted to Slave Labor.

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

And all this time you thought it was never wrong.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, if He did, it wouldn't be solely because of that, but it could theoretically be the tipping point.

That sucks! The entire planet is cursed because a few million people voted against Prop 8.

If my memory serves me well (and if often doesnt), for Prop 22, there were about 7.5M total votes, 4.5M Yes and 3M No.

I would be surprised if more than 10M people in total weighed in on Prop 8 this time around.

I feel a great mantle of responsibility knowing that my vote could basically end your life. I promise to not vote haphazardly.