LDS church chides Affirmation

[UtahDan]

Given that Jesus during his ministry reached out to those groups of people that society scorned, including sinners, I have to think that He would be reaching out in some way to the gay community if his ministry were today. I think His "bowels" would be "filled with mercy" toward them. I believe this is worth considering as we reflect upon what each of us, and we collectively as a church body, are doing to reach out to them.

I don't believe that the First Presidency, though it leads us, is the "church" anymore than I think that the President and the Congress are "America." I think that whatever leadership is doing can be an easy target, but the real question that I think we as members ought to focus on is not what position Salt Lake takes, but what position do each of us take, not intellectually, but with our actions. I'm not holding myself out as a shining example either. Just food for thought.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Given that Jesus during his ministry reached out to those groups of people that society scorned, including sinners, I have to think that He would be reaching out in some way to the gay community if his ministry were today. I think His "bowels" would be "filled with mercy" toward them. I believe this is worth considering as we reflect upon what each of us, and we collectively as a church body, are doing to reach out to them.

I don't believe that the First Presidency, though it leads us, is the "church" anymore than I think that the President and the Congress are "America." I think that whatever leadership is doing can be an easy target, but the real question that I think we as members ought to focus on is not what position Salt Lake takes, but what position do each of us take, not intellectually, but with our actions. I'm not holding myself out as a shining example either. Just food for thought.

Volunteering at an AIDS hospice was definitely out of my comfort zone. This was when we were just getting to the point where people were starting to make it, and AIDS wasn't a death sentence. But it was for these people in the hospice. Giving a bath to an AIDS-demented dying man was really out of my comfort zone. Death esp. was out of my comfort zone, and I only did a couple of shifts there.

But I learned a few things.

For whatever reason, I have had personal dealings with gays that probably most active LDS have not, specifically on my mission. And I learned not to hate gays. I shed most of my homophobia. I'm grateful for these lessons.

I can't say I have done anything more than any of the rest of you. But no doubt holding the hand of a man, to die that afternoon, as he stared blankly at the ceiling, with raspy irregular breathing leaves an impression. Most of these men died alone, I believe. Families long gone.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

That supermajority post was mine and not Farrah's.

I've been here too long as I recognized that immediately upon reading it.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

let's face it Cali, there are A LOT, maybe even a supermajority of LDS that hate homosexuals and have no interest in being compassionate to these people that are intent on destroying marriage and causing the church to lose the most important battle (It's "Gettysburg" per the prophet) in its history.

So yes, that is why you are seeing a negative reaction to these frighteningly benign and no-brainer requests.

That isn't why I posted what I did. Human nature seems to be that we don't want to accept the consequences for our own actions. By making a list if what it wants, I see Affirmation trying to put itself into the position of "well, we only ask that the church do this, otherwise we just can't be a part of it." I can't think of his name right now, but the gentleman in the church symphony who was in the news because he didn't like the stance of the church comes to mind. He blamed the church rather than admitting that he chose to speak out.

Perhaps I'm much more cynical than others here, but I tend to think that people have ulterior motives for most everything they do.

[Sleeping in EQ]

"The issues surrounding same-gender attraction deserve careful attention, not public posturing."

The irony of this statement is apparently lost on Trotter.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I asked the same of my dad a while back. He couldn't come up with anything either. Then he started forwarding me links to crap blogs/articles. These anti-gay-marriage LDS are desperate for some good material in their defense but the best they can come up with is stuff from people like the noted homophobe Orson Scott Card. And he is a HUGE step up from the other morons.

I'm not getting forwarded emails from my extended family anymore attacking gay marriage. After I "replied all" and sent out some rebuttals.

I think for most LDS that are anti-gay-marriage, it is gut level aversion and disgust towards gay sex. "We don't have to articulate a position or argument, because it's OBVIOUS that it is DISGUSTING and EVIL." I think that is a nice summation of a lot of people's arguments, even if they are unable to consciously realize it.

Nice idea on the Reply All. I think I'm going to do it--I'm so tired of these emails.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I asked the same of my dad a while back. He couldn't come up with anything either. Then he started forwarding me links to crap blogs/articles. These anti-gay-marriage LDS are desperate for some good material in their defense but the best they can come up with is stuff from people like the noted homophobe Orson Scott Card. And he is a HUGE step up from the other morons.

I'm not getting forwarded emails from my extended family anymore attacking gay marriage. After I "replied all" and sent out some rebuttals.

I think for most LDS that are anti-gay-marriage, it is gut level aversion and disgust towards gay sex. "We don't have to articulate a position or argument, because it's OBVIOUS that it is DISGUSTING and EVIL." I think that is a nice summation of a lot of people's arguments, even if they are unable to consciously realize it.

I agree that the anti's cannot articulate a coherent, logical reason for opposing Prop 8. We saw here yesterday the same old conjecturing....gay marriage may destroy us, it will cause our kids to become gay, etc...all baseless rhetoric that amounts to little more than scaremongering.

However, I do respect the fact that some folks are simply opposed because this is what the Prophet has asked us all to do. There is honor to be found in humble obedience. While I personally feel like sitting this one out, I do not condemn those who obey out of love for the Prophet. It is when they start busting out junk studies of heterosexual marrige in Norway that my spidey senses start tingling.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I agree that the anti's cannot articulate a coherent, logical reason for opposing Prop 8. We saw here yesterday the same old conjecturing....gay marriage may destroy us, it will cause our kids to become gay, etc...all baseless rhetoric that amounts to little more than scaremongering.

However, I do respect the fact that some folks are simply opposed because this is what the Prophet has asked us all to do. There is honor to be found in humble obedience. While I personally feel like sitting this one out, I do not condemn those who obey out of love for the Prophet. It is when they start busting out junk studies of heterosexual marrige in Norway that my spidey senses start tingling.

So ... do you think the Prophet has a coherent, logical reason?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

So ... do you think the Prophet has a coherent, logical reason?

No.

If he does, he hasnt done a great job of explaining it to the Stake Presidents, who have, in turn, not done a great job explaining it to the Bishops.

If you are aware of his reason, please share here. I am all ears.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think part of it is that the church has said the meeting must be delayed from 6months to 1 year (the time it will take to get a new director of social services).

They probably feel like the church is jerking them around, and probably specifically delaying the meeting until after the California vote.

If it's true that the Church wants to delay the meeting until after the vote, that's particularly unfortunate. Meeting with Affirmation would aid in dispelling the notion that supporting Prop 8 is about hatred for gays. They're missing a pretty good PR opportunity, it seems to me.