Excommunication

[MikeWaters]

also, if you screw up real bad and you aren't Mormon, there will be no welcoming arms. Don't forget that.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by BYU71

When it comes to these things, PR I am talking about is the PR within the membership of the church.

Back to BYU, do you really think anyone cares or or thinks positively when BYU announces they have kicked a kid out because he had sex, consentual sex. Maybe some Islamic mullah somewhere applauds, but other than that the PR is for membership consumption.

This hasn't happened since Ronney Jenkins, Mikeli Wesley and Reno Mahe almost ten years ago.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I would probably agree with you, but it is what those in charge think works. I would say 90% of LDS people are into forgiveness. Watch the sinners who recognize their sin and ask for forgiveness. They are almost rock stars at church. Why, I don't know.

Try not going to church for 6 months and then show up. See if you ever have had so many people come up to you with a huge smile and say they really glad to see you.

Most of this I believe is very sincere, but some of it is programmed into us.

On the other hand, those in charge have a dual role. They want members to feel they can sin and come back and be forgiven, they actually want them too. On the other hand they don't want members thinking at decision time that there aren't serious consequences for bad behavior.

When these issues become highly public, that is when the PR part comes in. Anyone knows PR and image plays a big role in what happens with the HC and discipline.

I think I agree with you. I don't agree with the thought that it's the leader's job to show there are consequences to bad behavior (but I don't think that's your personal opinion). The real consequences have nothing to do with excommunication.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This hasn't happened since Ronney Jenkins, Mikeli Wesley and Reno Mahe almost ten years ago.

What hasn't happened, sex? I think what you can safely say is that there hasn't been a leak about it.

Also, do you think in each of the sex scandals during the Crowton era if it hadn't gotten to the press, it wouldn't have been handled differently. Before you go off, remember all the kids who got kicked out. I believe if it had been handled internally, a lot fewer kids would have been kicked off.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by BYU71

What hasn't happened, sex? I think what you can safely say is that there hasn't been a leak about it.

Also, do you think in each of the sex scandals during the Crowton era if it hadn't gotten to the press, it wouldn't have been handled differently. Before you go off, remember all the kids who got kicked out. I believe if it had been handled internally, a lot fewer kids would have been kicked off.

I don't believe consensual sex is grounds for getting kicked out of BYU anymore. No one in the athletic program has been kicked out for it in almost ten years.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I don't believe consensual sex is grounds for getting kicked out of BYU anymore. No one in the athletic program has been kicked out for it in almost ten years.

SexGate1 was undisputedly consensual. SexGate2 is another matter.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

SexGate1 was undisputedly consensual. SexGate2 is another matter.

I'll try again with a definition.

Consensual sex between a man and a woman where no rape allegations are made.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Try not going to church for 6 months and then show up. See if you ever have had so many people come up to you with a huge smile and say they really glad to see you.

I'm always up for a challenge and this looks like a good one.

[MikeWaters]

I am betting Bishops are more likely to sign continuing ecclesiastical endorsements with athletes than students. The athletes are not going to be routed through a hard-a**.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by BYU71

What hasn't happened, sex? I think what you can safely say is that there hasn't been a leak about it.

Also, do you think in each of the sex scandals during the Crowton era if it hadn't gotten to the press, it wouldn't have been handled differently. Before you go off, remember all the kids who got kicked out. I believe if it had been handled internally, a lot fewer kids would have been kicked off.

what the players in the Crowton era got in trouble for was a wild sex party with rape allegations. That's a lot different. I know you love to beat this drum, but those players would have been kicked out at a lot of schools, not just BYU.