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Surfah · 03-20-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Bateman was a master of cloaking administrative decisions with the priesthood.

Another reason why I could never work at BYU.

Amen. How Evenson managed to stay civil with his reply after Bateman's letter and the George Q. Cannon apostasy quotes is impressive. I doubt I would have had such tact or diplomacy.

I wonder how Evenson feels about the Honor Code. Essentially this seems like an Honor Code for the faculty.

Jeff Lebowski · 03-20-2007, 04:42 PM

Wow. Attaching the George Q. Cannon quotes to that memo was a real cheap shot. Another example of why the faculty were elated when Bateman was replaced.

Surfah · 03-20-2007, 04:48 PM

In defense of the University and it's policies I will say that it is a unique environment and that employment there is akin to studying there. You know what you're getting into, so if you don't want to deal with that, there are other schools available. Now while I would probably be sitting in Evenson's boat on this issue, realistically would you expect anything less from BYU?

MikeWaters · 03-20-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

In defense of the University and it's policies I will say that it is a unique environment and that employment there is akin to studying there. You know what you're getting into, so if you don't want to deal with that, there are other schools available. Now while I would probably be sitting in Evenson's boat on this issue, realistically would you expect anything less from BYU?

If the University reworked the honor code in a mullah-like fashion, would you say "well that's the way it's supposed to be at BYU"?

You might be saying, instead, "why don't we just leave it as it was before."

And that's what Evenson was saying. "Let's keep the old BYU, and not go to this new BYU."

Sleeping in EQ · 03-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

In defense of the University and it's policies I will say that it is a unique environment and that employment there is akin to studying there. You know what you're getting into, so if you don't want to deal with that, there are other schools available. Now while I would probably be sitting in Evenson's boat on this issue, realistically would you expect anything less from BYU?

Ummm...OK?

This reads alot like a defense of the policy because "that's how BYU is."

MikeWaters · 03-20-2007, 04:57 PM

It's ironic that in church meetings we ask if there is anyone opposed.

Yet at BYU this notion is totally foreign. And being opposed is tantamount to apostacy.

I really can't imagine Joseph Smith setting up BYU as it is now. Brigham Young, yes, I can imagine it. And I suppose that is why it is called BYU. And not JSU. JSU might be a more intellectually open place.

creekster · 03-20-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

What is the genesis for the belief that you will go inactive if you don't go to a church school? Are the youth of today so feeble that they are unable withstand anything other than being hand fed bits of toast dipped in milk?

I am not sure how old your daughter is, but this issue is one of very real and immediate importance to my wife and I, as my 18 yo son will leave this fall for a college far away and with a limited LDS population. He did apply to BYU and was admitted, but chose to go in another direction for several reasons. We support him in his choice, but I am concerned, as a father, about this coming year. This has nothing to do with thinking he is prepared for only bits of milk-sopped bread, which is a rather demeaning way to cast this issue. Instead, like many issues in life, it is a question of probabilities. If he is at a school with lots of LDS kids, he is more likely to be with kids sharing his standards and so is less likely to succumb to temptations to violate those standards. If he is hanging around a high percentage of young Mormon women, he is more likely to date and fall in love with a Mormon woman.

Your attitude as articulated seems to be based on your board persona infused with anti-BYU feelings as opposed to true perspective of an active LDS parent. BYU is a great school, very affordable and places someone in an environment that is always supportive of LDS standards. As a parent, what's not to like? I am glad my son is following his own path, but I would always be pleased if any of my children chose to attend BYU.

BTW, when he was applying to colleges BYU was always on the list. I asked him if he wanted to consider UofU and he winced and said something like "you've got to be kidding." He was clearly trained well.

Solon · 03-20-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

One other quick point. You don't go to BYU because of the faculty. You go because of the students.

BYU gets good students, better than its faculty.

Not for graduate school, at least in my department. My wagon, for better or for worse, is firmly hitched to my adviser.

MikeWaters · 03-20-2007, 05:02 PM

Creekster, the first fork in the road will be mission or not.

If he goes on a mission, you may find that he decides to transfer. Maybe yes, maybe no.

creekster · 03-20-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Creekster, the first fork in the road will be mission or not.

If he goes on a mission, you may find that he decides to transfer. Maybe yes, maybe no.

This is true. He is planning on a mission and I expect that he will go. But the probability would certainly be higher if he was attending BYU.

03-20-2007, 04:42 PM	#22
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Wow. Attaching the George Q. Cannon quotes to that memo was a real cheap shot. Another example of why the faculty were elated when Bateman was replaced. __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

03-20-2007, 04:48 PM	#23
Surfah Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: F'burg, VA Posts: 3,211	In defense of the University and it's policies I will say that it is a unique environment and that employment there is akin to studying there. You know what you're getting into, so if you don't want to deal with that, there are other schools available. Now while I would probably be sitting in Evenson's boat on this issue, realistically would you expect anything less from BYU? __________________ Ernie Johnson: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort." Charles Barkley: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

03-20-2007, 04:57 PM	#26
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	It's ironic that in church meetings we ask if there is anyone opposed. Yet at BYU this notion is totally foreign. And being opposed is tantamount to apostacy. I really can't imagine Joseph Smith setting up BYU as it is now. Brigham Young, yes, I can imagine it. And I suppose that is why it is called BYU. And not JSU. JSU might be a more intellectually open place.

03-20-2007, 05:02 PM	#29
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Creekster, the first fork in the road will be mission or not. If he goes on a mission, you may find that he decides to transfer. Maybe yes, maybe no.