BYU just hosted an international conference

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Why not? Many converts within the last 30 years are serving as a member of the 70.

This is a big issue that is only going to get bigger. It will be highlighted in the Romney campaign, particularly if he is running against Obama. You could also look at the MoTab with its 3 African American members (up from 1 last conference!).

The problem as I see it isn't that African Americans are recent converts to the church. The problem is that most church authorities haven't associated with many African Americans leading to none being called. Take a look at the Quorum of the 12 and the 70. How many are even from outside of Utah (let alone minorities)? Not very many. Not many at all. We are an international church in membership terms only.

I think my perspective might help shed light on the subject. Five years ago I asked myself the very same questions as Cali with the same zeal. I hold out great hope for the moment the first North American or African based Black GA is called, yet I am more willing now to be patient.

It is important to note that I have worked with many non caucaision leaders of the church for many years now. I served as councilor in a bishopric where my Bishop was from Jamaica (a very close friend). At the same time a Bishop of another Ward in our Stake was originally from Africa.

I served in another bishopric where the Bishop was American, one councilor was from St. Vincent and the other from Mexico, at the same time the previous Jamacian Bishop was called to the Stake Presidency.

Currently the Toronto Stake President is Chinese (I believe born in China). One councilor is Caucaision Canadian the other the aforementioned Jamaican. In my Stake 40 minutes outside of Toronto our current Stake President was born in South America. One of his councilors was born in England, the other is caucaision Canadian.

There is great diversity in leadership in the church in my region. Caucaisions are in the minority in Toronto Wards. However it is still limited to a relatively small goegraphic area -you need only go 40 minutes in other directions into more afluent suburbs of Toronto and the entire Stake Presidency is caucaision.

Based upon my experience, the biggest stumbling block to a more diverse 70 is the general body of the church and local Stake leadership in afluent areas ... they are just not ready. Therefore, until they are the Lord will withhold just such a blessing.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by tooblue

I think my perspective might help shed light on the subject. 5 years ago I asked myself the very same questions as Cali with the same zeal. I hold out great hope for the moment the first Black GA is called, yet I am more willing now to be patient.

It is important to note that I have worked with many non caucaision leaders of the church for many years now. I served as councilor in a bishopric where my Bishop was from Jamaica (a very close friend). At the same time a Bishop of another Ward in our Stake was originally from Africa.

I served in another bishopric where the Bishop was American, one councilor was from St. Vincent and the other from Mexico, at the same time the previous Jamacian Bishop was called to the Stake Presidency.

Currently the Toronto Stake President is Chinese (I believe born in China). One councilor is Caucaision Canadian the other the aforementioned Jamaican. In my Stake 40 minutes outside of Toronto our current Stake President was born in South America. One of his councilors was born in England, the other is caucaision Canadian.

There is great diversity in leadership in the church in my region. Caucaisions are in the minority in Toronto Wards. However it is still limited to a relatively small goegraphic area -you need only go 40 minutes in other directions into more afluent suburbs of Toronto and the entire Stake Presidency is caucaision.

Based upon my experience, the biggest stumbling block to a more diverse 70 is the general body of the church and local Stake leadership in afluent areas ... they are just not ready. Therefore, until they are the Lord will withhold just such a blessing.

We had a black GA.. Hevlecio Martins... He's was in Brazil

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Selig shouldn't be commissioner due to a conflict of interest... He owns the Milwaukee Breweres (even though now its in his daughter's name)

Agreed -this is an important argument.

[Mormon Red Death]

http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/martins.html

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

We have a black GA.. Hevlecio Martins... He's in Brazil

True, sorry, I should qualify ... A north American, or African based GA

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Yes, I did notice, and I was very excited about it. Still not a single African American full time GA, but it is progress. I did wonder if the German GA knew Uchtdorf.

That is just not a large pool to swim in. More disconcerting is the scant representation of S. and C. Americans. Progress has been made in this regard and will made continually.

Frankly, the U.S. church is extremely insular because of its geographic origins. Most of us know this antecdotally since it usually only takes 2 or 3 minutes worth of conversation to discover mutual acquaintances with new Mormons that we meet.

I am more concerned about diversity of occupation and socioeconomic status in the leadership. A hierarchy almost exclusively made up of lawyers, businessmen/entrepeneurs, and former church employees is unlikely to fully address the issues of a diverse church especially in understanding the day to day grind that church members face. ANd you can't tell me that affluent people have a monopoly on spirituality.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

That is just not a large pool to swim in. More disconcerting is the scant representation of S. and C. Americans. Progress has been made in this regard and will made continually.

Frankly, the U.S. church is extremely insular because of its geographic origins. Most of us know this antecdotally since it usually only takes 2 or 3 minutes worth of conversation to discover mutual acquaintances with new Mormons that we meet.

I am more concerned about diversity of occupation and socioeconomic status in the leadership. A hierarchy almost exclusively made up of lawyers, businessmen/entrepeneurs, and former church employees is unlikely to fully address the issues of a diverse church especially in understanding the day to day grind that church members face. ANd you can't tell me that affluent people have a monopoly on spirituality.

They don't have a monopoly on spirituality, but they may have more leadership experience and the financial means of dropping their fishing nets and heeding the call.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

They don't have a monopoly on spirituality, but they may have more leadership experience and the financial means of dropping their fishing nets and heeding the call.

Why do they need financial means to be a GA? The church covers the mortgage payments, travel expenses, and food payments of GAs who are unable to pay for them on their own.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by tooblue

I think my perspective might help shed light on the subject. Five years ago I asked myself the very same questions as Cali with the same zeal. I hold out great hope for the moment the first North American or African based Black GA is called, yet I am more willing now to be patient.

It is important to note that I have worked with many non caucaision leaders of the church for many years now. I served as councilor in a bishopric where my Bishop was from Jamaica (a very close friend). At the same time a Bishop of another Ward in our Stake was originally from Africa.

I served in another bishopric where the Bishop was American, one councilor was from St. Vincent and the other from Mexico, at the same time the previous Jamacian Bishop was called to the Stake Presidency.

Currently the Toronto Stake President is Chinese (I believe born in China). One councilor is Caucaision Canadian the other the aforementioned Jamaican. In my Stake 40 minutes outside of Toronto our current Stake President was born in South America. One of his councilors was born in England, the other is caucaision Canadian.

There is great diversity in leadership in the church in my region. Caucaisions are in the minority in Toronto Wards. However it is still limited to a relatively small goegraphic area -you need only go 40 minutes in other directions into more afluent suburbs of Toronto and the entire Stake Presidency is caucaision.

Based upon my experience, the biggest stumbling block to a more diverse 70 is the general body of the church and local Stake leadership in afluent areas ... they are just not ready. Therefore, until they are the Lord will withhold just such a blessing.

I have been in many wards where the ward and stake leadership was composed largely of minorities (in DC and London, for example).

Part of the reason why I don't but Indy's "not enough experience" argument which sounds more like an apology than anything grounded in reality.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I have been in many wards where the ward and stake leadership was composed largely of minorities (in DC and London, for example).

Part of the reason why I don't but Indy's "not enough experience" argument which sounds more like an apology than anything grounded in reality.

The truth is probably closer to the fact that the minorities are not known enough by the decision makers. Now it's their fault for only associating with the Utahns. Eventually, power will dissipate and be dispersed, but don't expect as soon as it makes sense. Centralization has its drawbacks as well.