BYU just hosted an international conference

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I have been in many wards where the ward and stake leadership was composed largely of minorities (in DC and London, for example).

Part of the reason why I don't but Indy's "not enough experience" argument which sounds more like an apology than anything grounded in reality.

Do me a favor: give me a head count of how many stake presidents of African or African descent there have been to date.

P.S. That doesn't mean that I think that being a stake president in and of itself qualifies someone as being ready to serve as a General Authority.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The truth is probably closer to the fact that the minorities are not known enough by the decision makers. Now it's their fault for only associating with the Utahns. Eventually, power will dissipate and be dispersed, but don't expect as soon as it makes sense. Centralization has its drawbacks as well.

Do you guys have any freaking inkling how much interaction General Authorities have with leaders, such as stake and mission presidents, around the world? General Authorites don't live in a concrete bunker underneath the granite vaults in Cottonwood Canyon.

There is continual interaction with Area Presidencies, and regular interaction with presidencies of the Seventy as well as the Twelve. I was surprised how many of the Church Hierarchy my dad knew from his time serving as Stake President in Saudi Arabia (is that far enough off the beaten path for you?).

Elder Nelson
Elder Packer
Elder Oaks
Elder Asay
Elder Ringger
Elder Neuenschwander
Elder Didier

etc.

A humble, righteous stalwart Stake President serving in Ghana isn't flying under the radar like some of you seem to think.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Do me a favor: give me a head count of how many stake presidents of African or African descent there have been to date.

P.S. That doesn't mean that I think that being a stake president in and of itself qualifies someone as being ready to serve as a General Authority.

The church doesn't keep statistics on this, or at least they don't release them publicly. I can tell you that there is currently one in DC and currently one in London (with another two in London serving as bishop and multiple counselors from Ethiopia). The only examples I can give are anecdotal.

Care to show me your statistics that suggest that there aren't enough African Americans with experience to get even one single full time GA?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

The church doesn't keep statistics on this, or at least they don't release them publicly. I can tell you that there is currently one in DC and currently one in London (with another two in London serving as bishop and multiple counselors from Ethiopia). The only examples I can give are anecdotal.

Care to show me your statistics that suggest that there aren't enough African Americans with experience to get even one single full time GA?

Please read my post above yours. I think that makes the point clearly enough.

Like I said earlier, in 10 to 15 years this argument is going to be completely moot, so the real issue now is that some people are just impatient.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Do me a favor: give me a head count of how many stake presidents of African or African descent there have been to date.

P.S. That doesn't mean that I think that being a stake president in and of itself qualifies someone as being ready to serve as a General Authority.

I wasn't aware there were "qualification standards" related to position for being a GA. What makes one "ready" to serve as a GA?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Please read my post above yours. I think that makes the point clearly enough.

Like I said earlier, in 10 to 15 years this argument is going to be completely moot, so the real issue now is that some people are just impatient.

In 10 to 15 years it will be moot? How in the world could you possibly know that?

If there are several African Americans serving as stake presidents, I would suggest there are several with a lot of church leadership experience (which you seem to believe to be a prerequisite for service as a GA, though I don't know where you get that idea from). The fact that they may know GAs through some contact in those positions is hardly the same as knowing them on a daily personal level. Making a trip to Ghana once a year for stake conference (with rotating officials making that trip) isn't exactly going to foster a close kinship in most instances. Certainly not as close as a person who interacts frequently with a GA.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I wasn't aware there were "qualification standards" related to position for being a GA. What makes one "ready" to serve as a GA?

Now you're just being stupid. I just said being a stake president wasn't something that in and of itself was going to generate a call as a General Authority.

There is irrefutable evidence that the VAST MAJORITY of current General Authorities have served previously as

1. Bishop
2. Stake President

and often as

3. Mission President

So even though it isn't explicitly church policy, it's more or less the de facto order of things.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

In 10 to 15 years it will be moot? How in the world could you possibly know that?

If there are several African Americans serving as stake presidents, I would suggest there are several with a lot of church leadership experience (which you seem to believe to be a prerequisite for service as a GA, though I don't know where you get that idea from). The fact that they may know GAs through some contact in those positions is hardly the same as knowing them on a daily personal level. Making a trip to Ghana once a year for stake conference (with rotating officials making that trip) isn't exactly going to foster a close kinship in most instances. Certainly not as close as a person who interacts frequently with a GA.

Area Presidencies interact with Stake Presidents all the time, not just once or twice a year. That's a fact.

Are Area Presidencies not comprised of General Authorities?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Now you're just being stupid. I just said being a stake president wasn't something that in and of itself was going to generate a call as a General Authority.

There is irrefutable evidence that the VAST MAJORITY of current General Authorities have served previously as

1. Bishop
2. Stake President

and often as

3. Mission President

So even though it isn't explicitly church policy, it's more or less the de facto order of things.

You continue to note that there aren't enough African American members with experience to serve as a GA. I asked what experience was necessary, and you continued to bring up service as a stake president. I pointed out that there are several serving as a stake president, at which point you then said that serving as a stake president doesn't "qualify" you.

I think in your efforts to apologize for the absence of any African Americans in church leadership, you are going around in circles.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Area Presidencies interact with Stake Presidents all the time, not just once or twice a year. That's a fact.

Are Area Presidencies not comprised of General Authorities?

Yes, they are technically GAs, but not on the same level as someone in the First Quorum or the 12.